Erin Collier-Plummer

How often do you find yourself feeling out of your depth in the workplace? On this show Erin Collier-Plummer, Youth Services Manager at the Winter Park Library in Florida, talks about Imposter Syndrome – what it is and isn’t, how it can affect careers, and what to do about it.

Transcript

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Adriane Herrick Juarez:

This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast where we talk about libraries, and leadership, and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations, and strategic insights into the profession.

How often do you find yourself feeling out of your depth in the workplace? On this show Erin Collier-Plummer, Youth Services Manager at the Winter Park Library in Florida, talks about imposter syndrome—what it is, and isn’t, how it can affect careers, and what to do about it.

It’s a relatable topic for many of us. Enjoy the show!

Erin, welcome to the show.

Erin Collier-Plummer:

Thank you so much for having me.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #1: Thank you for being here. Today we’re discussing something that many of us may grapple with, but not be sure how to handle—and that is feeling like a fraud. We are talking about managing imposter syndrome. To begin, what is imposter syndrome, and what is important to learn about this?  01:19 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

I always go back to Dr. Valerie Young’s definition of imposter syndrome. She wrote a wonderful book about this topic called The Secret Thoughts of Successful Women. She refers to imposter syndrome as people who have a persistent belief in their lack of intelligence, skills, or competence. What I’d like to add to that is—despite passed performance success.

So you’re not experiencing imposter syndrome when you’re asked to do something that is completely out of your wheelhouse. You ask me to fix a toilet. I’m going to recommend you see a professional because that is completely not something that you want me to do. But if you want me to take on a new task at work that maybe I’m unsure of myself, or maybe feel like I have a whole lot of eyes on me. It’s not so important what’s really happening, it’s the internal conversation that we’re having with ourselves. So that would be much more likely to elicit feelings of imposter syndrome.

I think it’s important for people to understand what it is and what it isn’t. People who have high self-esteem can also experience imposter syndrome sometimes. They can experience it situationally. It’s not necessarily something that you experience in every situation, but there may be certain times, or circumstances that may trigger that sort of response within yourself. So it’s important to recognize it when it happens, because what you don’t want to do is have it dictate your career choices. For example, or if you’re in a supervisory position how you interact with your team.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #2: How does imposter syndrome affect people’s careers?  03:16 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

It’s one of the things I talk about in the article I wrote for Public Libraries several years ago. The biggest deterrent to moving ahead is saying no to yourself. Imposter syndrome will definitely create a sense of anxiety and unease. We’re much more likely to say no to things when it pushes us outside of our comfort zone. So, you may not apply for that job. You may not join that professional organization. What might feel really small to somebody else might feel gargantuan to you, and you might not take that risk.

There’s people that you can’t network with, who may know about other positions or opportunities for you. There are promotions that you may not apply for. There are new opportunities at work that you may not take on where you might have gained more visibility, more team building rapport. It can be insidious because it always feels safe. It always feels like the safe route to say, No, I think that that’s really something I don’t think I’m cut out for —then inwardly be feeling like, I could never do that, or they just asked me because they felt bad for me, or they’re just trying to be nice to me, right? These are generally not things we say to other people, but are things that we can say to ourselves.

It can definitely be a career derailer, if we allow it to be.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #3: How can imposter syndrome affect our teams in the workplace?  04:47 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

One of the things that imposter syndrome does, not for everyone, but for a lot of folks who are experiencing it is it can help to mask feelings of shame within us. Shame tells us that there’s something wrong with us. It doesn’t tell us that we have some insecurity about doing something. It’s a little deeper than that. What shame does is it prevents us from being vulnerable. Anyone who wants to understand anything about vulnerability the person to go to is Brené Brown. She has a wonderful YouTube video on the power of vulnerability. She’s written a wonderful book called, Daring Greatly. She’s written lots of wonderful books. 

When we’re afraid to be vulnerable we’re not authentic. Even if we are the nicest person in the world, we can’t be authentic because we can’t truly be ourselves. In order to build a team you need respect. You need trust, and you need to create an environment where people feel safe. They feel safe to challenge ideas. They feel safe to speak up. They feel safe to be human. They will take their cue from their leader. So when you are authentic, and when you are genuine, and what I mean by that is—you know, I am very upfront with my staff. I’m very honest to the degree that I can be honest. I’m very honest with them. I really level with them, and I level with them about how I’m doing. If they’re struggling with something sometimes I’ll say, You know I’m struggling with this other thing too. It’s not made up, it’s true. It’s just that I am not afraid to show that to them because when people feel like leadership is open, then they feel like they can be open. If leadership can make a mistake, I can make a mistake. 

If you’re experiencing imposter syndrome and you’re not able to challenge that then you may sort of be building a shell around yourself that prevents you from truly being authentic and approachable by team members.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #4: You mentioned that imposter syndrome isn’t necessarily a career derailer, can you tell us about this?  06:49 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

One of the things that I like to talk about is how you can use imposter syndrome to spring you forward, because one of the things that we may experience when we’re dealing with imposter syndrome may be that discomfort, that anxiety, that unease. One of the things I love to tell people is—when you’re going on stage and you’re feeling anxiety, most if not all presenters feel anxiety at some point in the process, there’s also an element of excitement there. If people can learn to reframe the situation, instead of being, I’m terrified, it becomes, I’m excited. You can acknowledge the nervousness but, I’m excited. This is a new opportunity. This may be a real opportunity for me to grow. 

Also what imposter syndrome can do, if you learn how to manage it—it can spur you to step outside your comfort zone more. The more you stretch your comfort zone, the bigger it gets, so you can let more information and more opportunities inside that comfort zone.

I think that it’s just really important to understand that it doesn’t have to shut you down. You can look for those opportunities when you think that, and you feel those things to say, Wait a minute, this could be a really exciting thing that I’m looking to do. This new job opportunity could be really exciting. This could be something that I could really see myself doing. But, if you don’t challenge it, then that process can’t happen.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #5: What tips can you provide for when we feel like a fraud, or this is affecting others around us?  08:26 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

There’s a couple of things that you can do in the moment that you’re experiencing those feelings. There are things that you can do longer term, but when you’re in the moment—that’s when you really have to deal with it right away. When we feel anxiety we want to run away. Fight or flight, but I challenge people to show up and stay. That means you got to feel the feelings. Now I don’t want you to stay there. Don’t stay there, but acknowledge those feelings. They are valid feelings, but they’re just feelings. 

Depending on what you’re doing, another thing you can do if you have access to your phone, or a pad of paper, or a pen, is to write down three skills or talents that you have. They do not have to be related to the task. They don’t even have to be related to work. They can just be three things that you feel confident in yourself about. If you can write them down, that’s ideal. But if you can’t write them down try to keep them as a mantra—say it over and over again in your head.

This does a couple of things. It refocuses you, right? So now I’m not steeped in the emotions, I’m thinking about things that elicit more positive emotions for me. If you can write it down then it gives you something that you can go back to when those feelings come back, because rarely do those feelings go away and then just stay away. 

Having something written just allows you to reflect on it as well. It may be one of those things where later on you add to that list. But I don’t like people to overthink it when they first write those three things down—the first three things that come to mind, the most obvious three things, because otherwise we tend to overthink. 

Then reach out to get some support. If you can duck away and text someone, or if there’s someone at work that you can talk to, if there’s a trusted colleague that you can go in their office and say, Hey, look I’m really grappling with. I need a reality check. Or, I just need someone that can remind me that I can do this. Then that can also give us a little bit more objectivity when we’re dealing with these feelings. 

I think the most important thing, and I will recommend this to everyone, is give up perfectionism. If you’re a perfectionist it tends to go hand in hand with imposter syndrome. We have, us perfectionists, [laughter] have something that Brené Brown calls shame resilience. This is something that we have to use to work on our perfectionism. We have to recognize the things that trigger those feelings in us. If you’re serious about working on imposter syndrome, then it’s really, really important to challenge that—and if it’s bringing up feelings of shame to challenge those feelings of shame as well.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #6: Is there anything else you’d like to share?  11:16 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

Yes, if you don’t have a mentor, please do so. I do want to mention that library workers, in particular, can really struggle with imposter syndrome. Our field has changed so much, budgets are lower, we’re sometimes being asked to do more—that could definitely generate feelings of not doing enough, or not being enough. 

But I also want people to recognize when it is not imposter syndrome. If you have a toxic workplace, if you are dealing with microaggressions at work from colleagues or supervisors, if you are working in an organization that doesn’t understand and respect different cultures—there’s a lot of cultural bias going on, if you have supervisors that are just not good supervisors, not good leaders, not good managers—that’s not imposter syndrome. So I think it’s really important for people to understand that the term gets thrown around a lot but it can also be weaponized. It can also be used against people in the workplace. I think that self-awareness is really key.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #7: Do you have any favorite management, or leadership book or resources, and why?  12:25 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

The one I always come to is not really a business resource—but anything by Brené Brown will make you a better person and a stronger leader, because it’s all about being authentic and looking at one’s self and dealing with those things when, and before, and during the times that you’re interacting with other people. 

I think there’s lots of great management books out there—all different kinds of different philosophies. I could recommend a name and maybe lots of other people have looked at it. I think anything that gets you to look inside of yourself and to recognize your own biases, anything that’s time management related of course is valuable and wonderful—Get It Done, is a great book. There’s a lot of great resources out there, but I always come back to the books that help me grow as a person. I just find that those really help me professionally. 

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Question #8: In closing, what do libraries mean to you, personally?  13:30 

Erin Collier-Plummer:

I have very fond memories of going to the library with my mother. She was a very busy person. She worked full-time and that was the only thing that we had that we did together, just the two of us. I was a voracious reader as a child. I read a lot to escape the chaos of my home. I always loved books, and I never grew up limited to the types of books that I was able to read. 

To me libraries represent an opportunity to access all different kinds of viewpoints and backgrounds, and perspectives. I think it makes us much more empathetic, much more fulfilled people, and certainly much better community members when we’re able to understand the perspectives of different people in our community. I’ve always looked at libraries as community hubs and I believe that’s what they should be. I hope that every interaction I have with anyone in my community reinforces that and makes them understand the value. These are the folks that are going to help determine our funding. They are also the folks who are going to bring their children and their grandchildren to the library.

Adriane Herrick Juarez:

Erin, thank you for being on this show to talk with me about imposter syndrome. It’s something that many people can relate to, and the information you’ve given us is helpful as we grapple with this in particular in the climate of libraries today. I know our listeners will benefit greatly from this information. So I really appreciate you being here.  

Erin Collier-Plummer:

Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you so much again for having me here.

You’ve been listening to Library Leadership Podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes tune into LibraryLeadershipPodcast.com where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right into your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.

We would like to thank the Park City Library for their dedicated support of this show. The opinions expressed on this show are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect the views of Library Leadership Podcast, or our sponsors.