All of us want to avoid dysfunction within our organizations and create successful teams, yet how often do we have time to talk and think about ways to do that? On this show we do just this with Lauren Clossey and Amanda Johnson, Owners of Alliance Research and Training in North Carolina, as they share information on rooting out dysfunction and creating successful teams. They provide insightful training on this topic to help teams build trust, safety, inclusion, and transparency to empower libraries to provide the best possible service.
Transcript
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Adriane Herrick Juarez:
This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast, where we talk about libraries and leadership, and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations, and strategic insights in the profession.
All of us want to avoid dysfunction within our organizations and create successful teams. Yet how often do we have time to talk and think about ways to do that? On this show we do just this with Lauren Clossey and Amanda Johnson, owners of Alliance Research and Training in North Carolina, as they share information on rooting out dysfunction and creating successful teams. They provide insightful training on this topic to help teams build trust, safety, inclusion and transparency to empower libraries to provide the best possible service. Enjoy the show!
Amanda and Lauren, welcome to the show.
Amanda Johnson:
Hi. We’re so glad to be here. Thanks for having us.
Lauren Clossey:
Hello. Thank you.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #1: I’m glad to have you here. Today we are talking about rooting out dysfunction and creating successful teams. As we start, will you please identify the hallmarks of dysfunctional teams? Let’s start with you, Amanda. 01:39
Amanda Johnson:
Teams can be dysfunctional for many reasons, but there are a few common themes. The first is not having clear goals, or team members not having a shared understanding of the work they’re doing, and why it’s important. Dysfunctional patterns can also be caused when team members don’t feel valued or safe on the team. This often results in unequal or inconsistent contribution from team members, and it causes the team to spend too much time managing threats from inside the team. They’re focusing on their relationship with other team members. They might be defensive, or they’re stuck in conflict, and they’re just kind of mired in tension that hinders the team overall.
Lauren Clossey:
Another behavior that causes dysfunction is not addressing conflict. That causes issues to fester. It becomes a barrier to the productivity of a team. Issues become bigger than they need to be, and team members waste a lot of time and energy because they don’t know how to move forward.
Sometimes team members also feel mistreated. Mistreatment can look like playing favorites, or passive aggressive behaviors, or a team leader who assigns certain team members all the work, or none of the work, and not valuing the team’s time. Team members that feel like they’re being mistreated—they’re afraid, usually, to share ideas for fear of retribution, either from their team members or from the team leaders.
Other times teams feel micromanaged. They feel like they don’t have autonomy over their work—they don’t have ownership or even the ability to provide input into how they do their work. This leads to a lack of trust, and feeling like their knowledge and their expertise isn’t valued. We’re going to talk a lot today about the lack of trust.
One quote that Amanda and I love about the work of good teams comes from Doctor Henry Cloud, and Doctor John Townsend. This is the bedrock of our whole training on good teams. They say that good teams address the process and the way they work together. They have a plan and they talk about it. So, these negative behaviors that are associated with dysfunctional teams all have the same negative outcomes. They undermine trust. They create resentment. They kill productivity for a team. Having a process and a plan in place for your team before work even begins can really go a long way in making sure that the teamwork is going to be more successful.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #2: Thank you. Can you touch on pitfalls to which many teams fall prey in dysfunction? 04:39
Amanda Johnson:
I’d say there’s two main pitfalls. The first is a lack of trust. I think oftentimes we just assume that there is some level of trust among colleagues. That’s not always a given. When we lack trust and safety in our teams, we waste a lot of time being hesitant, being guarded, and not willing to be vulnerable, and really share our ideas and thoughts that we might not have fully fleshed out or thought through. We’re just not being as open with the team as we could be.
It’s also important to think about the role transparency plays in creating trust among team members. In organizations where transparency is not valued, it’s difficult for people to trust those above them and each other, especially when they’re kept in the dark about things like decision-making processes, or only told information on a need-to-know basis.
The second main pitfall is a lack of safety—much like with trust, team members need to be able to be their authentic selves when they’re working on a team. If they can’t do that, the team is going to face challenges.
Inclusion is another aspect of safety that I think sometimes isn’t top of mind when working on a small team. If all team members don’t feel valued equally, they may be less likely to share and contribute. So, teams really need to think about their practices and how they approach their work to make sure the team that is working in a way that really includes all members.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #3: Amanda, you say that no matter the role you play in your organization, there are things that any team member can implement to avoid these pitfalls. What are these? 06:15
Amanda Johnson:
Any team member can implement practices that really make a big change in the culture of the team. So first, to build safety and trust, always make sure you are an ally in conversations. Focus on what people are sharing and find something you like about what they’ve said. Even if you don’t agree with everything they’ve said, find one little thing and build off that idea. Then when people are sharing, really listen for their value statements when they’re talking and not their flaws.
You can also encourage dialogue among team members and bring people into the conversation. Really think about how your team structures communication and discussion, and consider if those methods or styles are excluding some members from fully participating. This can be as simple as changing up the format of your meetings, or especially if you’re a team leader, waiting to jump into the conversation. So, get comfortable with a little bit of silence. Allow people to really consider what’s being asked, and don’t always be the first person to jump in.
The other thing with trust and safety is that it’s important to have conversations with the team to gain an understanding of what individual members need to feel safe. Notice when other team members might not be feeling safe and get comfortable acknowledging when you don’t feel safe.
Also, as a team member, you need to make sure you are good to your word. So if you promise to do something—do it, or communicate around the challenges that you’re having. You don’t want to be the team member that nobody can count on to do what you’ve said, because then your team is going to see you as untrustworthy and not invested.
One area that is a little difficult as a team member to affect is transparency, but transparency is key. If you’re a team leader, it’s really important to be as transparent as possible with your team, especially when it comes to how decisions are being made about the work. Making it clear how your team’s input is being used when and how that feedback is being utilized can reduce stress, increase trust, and it really helps create a culture where people are more likely to take ownership over challenges and solutions.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #4: Lauren, what are some methods that our listeners can immediately put into practice to avoid team dysfunction? 08:38
Lauren Clossey:
Teams can start by encouraging healthy discussions among each other in a safe environment. One way that you can do this is by setting ground rules for how the team is going to communicate, either in meetings or in any other way that you communicate with one another—and stick to those rules.
Another way is to discuss what is not working well for the team. What are some areas that the team needs to work on to be more effective? Communication is often an area that teams struggle with. It may be difficult for a team to wrap up conversations, or to come to a consensus if they’re having a discussion. One technique that a lot of teams use is called the ELMO technique—E-L-M-O. E-L-M-O stands for “Enough, Let’s Move On”. This technique helps end the conversation in a non-threatening way. An example of how this is used is in a meeting—when it feels like a team has exhausted a conversation, and you just don’t know what else to say, but no one wants to end the meeting. Someone can call for an ELMO vote, and the whole group votes to either move on, or not move on and continue the conversation. Whatever the majority decides, wins.
Another really simple technique is for team members to utilize “I” statements. You want to be sure that you’re avoiding that vague and exaggerated language when you’re giving feedback or talking with your team. If your team is feeling emotionally charged, or it’s a difficult conversation, we tend to use more accusatory language that is aimed at the whole team. But, when you focus on using those “I” statements, it shows that you’re speaking for yourself from your own perspective. An example of an “I” statement would be, I feel frustrated with how slowly this program is rolling out. Instead—you don’t want to say things like, We’re all frustrated with how this program is rolling out. Remember, you’re not speaking for others. You just want to speak for yourself.
When it comes to team participation, the rule of thumb is everybody participates, but nobody dominates. One way to encourage participation from everybody on the team is to ask questions like, What are you thinking about this topic that hasn’t already been shared? When team members do share, you want to use acknowledgement phrasing like, I can see you feel really strongly about this, or I can tell that you’ve put a lot of thought into these solutions or these challenges, or whatever it is. When you use that type of phrasing, it creates a safer space for team members to share.
We know that teams do tend to shy away from difficult discussions. It’s not something that we’re all comfortable with. We want to move away from that discomfort, but being a team that is able to tackle conflict head on is much more effective. They’re able to move past problems a lot more quickly. They don’t waste time. To do this—to learn how to move your team along, teams can start with having a bias toward action. You don’t want to let that uncertainty derail your work. Have candid conversations about the uncertainty that the team feels and what is causing it. This could be as simple as asking a question like, What is, and isn’t working about the structure of our meetings? As a team, you can brainstorm ways that the team feels comfortable breaking up that uncertainty—to move toward solutions again. But notice it’s the team that’s deciding what they feel comfortable with, and what they want to do, not just the team leader.
Mostly all of this that we’re talking about today comes down to the fact that teams can’t be afraid to speak respectfully, but candidly about what they’re experiencing on the team. If you’re a team leader, don’t be afraid to hear what’s not working, or what could be improved. You want to welcome that information—getting comfortable having these conversations. It takes effort and it takes practice. So normalize how having conversations around how the team is working and make it part of your team’s workflow.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #5: Lauren. By using these methods, we can move our organizations from a sense of “me” to a sense of “we”. Can you share about that? 13:10
Lauren Clossey:
Amanda and I learned about this concept of the sense of “we” in the book, Opening Doors to Teamwork & Collaboration. Having this sense of “we” helps team members to value their teammates and see everyone as being on the same side of the table. When teams lack that sense of “we”, it’s really hard for them to have a shared purpose. Team members often lack enthusiasm and accountability for their work, and these things result in the team having less shared success.
Team members should not be thinking in terms of “me” versus “them”. You should always be thinking in terms of “we”. The goal is to get the team thinking about how they can help and support one another, which ultimately improves your organization overall, instead of using all their time, and their attention, and energy being adversaries.
Working together, overcoming these dysfunctional behaviors that Amanda previously talked about, and making an effort to build that trust, the safety, the inclusion, the transparency—it’s really the best approach to cultivating that sense of “we”. So, if you’re wondering, How do I do that? Start with working on trust, safety, inclusion and transparency.
Even taking small steps in those areas can really have a big impact on your team. But with this sense of “we”, one caveat to this is that we want you to keep in mind that, especially for team leaders, you can’t force your team to believe in and have a sense of “we”. The team members have to believe in it themselves, and they have to want to work toward it. So, you want to make sure that everybody’s on the same page. You can’t force that on your team. But this idea of wanting to work toward and moving your team’s focus from “me” to “we” is definitely something that you want to strive for.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #6: Amanda, is there anything else you would like to share? 15:19
Amanda Johnson:
Overall with all of these issues that we’ve talked about? It’s just really important to keep in mind that these don’t just relate to teams. These really relate to our organizations more broadly in the kind of culture that we want to create for our employees. We want it to be safe. We want it to be full of trust—where people feel like they can come to work to do their best work, right? I also think that it’s important for leaders to really realize that employees can take ownership of being part of that change and leading to that change.
When it comes specifically to teams, I think really just reinforcing what we said earlier is— you want to be intentional. You really want to take time to understand how your team works together. So many times we get thrown on a team, or we might volunteer to be a part of a team, and we don’t spend a lot of time getting to know one another, and getting to know how our team members approach their work—how they like to communicate. We just kind of hit the ground running. And that’s tempting, right? We have problems we want to solve, but taking the time to stop and pause, and really think about how to set our team up for success before the work begins can have a really positive impact on how the team works and the organization overall.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #7: You can see how that would have a positive impact. Lauren, do you have any favorite management or leadership books or resources, and why? 16:39
Lauren Clossey:
Amanda and I have done a lot of research. When we were putting together this training we enjoyed reading lots of different books on teams and management. So, we have found these four books that we’re going to share to be some of the most helpful for us. The first is called Anxiety at Work: 8 Strategies to Help Build resilience, Handle Uncertainty and Get Stuff Done, which is by Adrian Gostick and Chester Elton. The next one is The New Art of Managing People, by Phil Hunsaker and Tony Alessandra. The third is The Dysfunctional Library: Challenges and Solutions to Workplace Relationships, by Jo Henry, Joe Eshelman and Richard Moniz. This one is really unique because it’s talking specifically about dysfunctional library environments. So, it’s one that we really recommend library people check out. The final one is Opening Doors to Teamwork & Collaboration: 4 Keys That Change Everything, by Judith Katz and Frederick Miller.
We found these books to be valuable because they gave practical strategies that teams could easily try to put into place to improve the team’s effectiveness. We recommend that if you’re looking to improve your team that you have your team members pick a book on team and do a book study together, and talk about what you’re learning and what the team would like to try and implement. As a team leader, you want to let the team make decisions about how the team works and what they’d be open to trying or doing differently, and that can really go a long way to establishing that trust and transparency. But doing it through a book group, or a book study is one easy way to kind of gently suggest changes that your team could make.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #8: Lauren and Amanda, in closing, what do libraries mean to you personally? 18:39
Lauren Clossey:
Libraries have always been an important part of my life starting from an early age so, I am really proud to have chosen a profession that is constantly growing, constantly adapting to provide essential services and spaces for their communities. I love that if you ask people randomly on the street why they love libraries, you’re going to get a ton of different answers from people because libraries truly have something for everyone. We go there for so many different reasons, whether it’s their resources or their programs or technologies, or just to be a safe space. A lot of people are still surprised to hear how libraries have changed and that they offer so much more than books now. I love talking to people about how libraries have changed. So I think it’s amazing how over time, libraries have evolved to meet those changing needs of their communities and have stayed relevant through all of the changes that we’ve seen.
Amanda Johnson:
Unlike Lauren, I don’t have a lot of memories as a young child of going to libraries. My first real memory of using libraries was as a high school student. What I remember most is how helpful my school librarian was in showing me how to answer my own questions. I think that was one of the real powers of libraries. We empower people to find information, to create things, to change their lives in some way. That is just so meaningful to people to really give them those skills, give them those resources and information to really make an impact on their lives and help them reach their goals.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #9: It’s true. Libraries empower people, make a positive impact on lives, and help people reach their goals. And what you’re talking about today, in terms of rooting out dysfunction and creating successful teams, can help empower those of us serving in libraries to make that a reality. I’m so glad we talked about this today and appreciate you sharing all of this fantastic information. Thank you for being here. 20:24
Amanda Johnson:
Thanks so much. We really enjoyed the opportunity.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
You’ve been listening to Library Leadership podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes, tune in to Library Leadership Podcast.com, where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right to your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.
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