Alyssa Castanon
What are ways we can engage our communities in work that embraces differences? On this show Essraa Nawar, Assistant Dean for DEI Initiatives and Development at Chapman University’s Leatherby Libraries, shares her experiences regarding the power of being different and meaningfully connected to the rest of the world. She helps us learn how to engage in work that promotes cultural understanding and inclusion.
Transcript
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Adriane Herrick Juarez:
This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast where we talk about libraries and leadership, and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations, and strategic insights in the profession.
What are ways we can engage our communities in work that embraces differences? On this show Essraa Nawar, Assistant Dean for DEI Initiatives and Development at Chapman University’s Leatherby Libraries, shares her experiences regarding the power of being different and meaningfully connected to the rest of the world. She helps us learn how to engage in work that promotes cultural understanding and inclusion. Enjoy the show!
Essraa, welcome to the show.
Essraa Nawar:
Hello. It’s so nice to be here, Adriane.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #1: It’s so nice to have you here, Essraa. Today we are talking about promoting cultural understanding and inclusion. As we begin, will you please share your experience about the power of being different and meaningfully connected to the rest of the world. 01:29
Essraa Nawar:
Love that question, Adriane. I think the way you put it is very different than any time I’ve been asked that question. I think being different is definitely a conversation starter. That’s the way I see it. That’s how I view the world. I think when I was a little younger and had just moved all the way from Egypt to the United States, I don’t think I thought that it was offensive, but it was very intriguing.
I did not know, I mean, coming from this very homogeneous society where about 85% to 90% of the people practice the same religion—look very similar, and talk the same language, and coming to a country full of people from all backgrounds. The way I viewed the United States was completely different than what the United States is all about, because there are just two narratives, either Hollywood—the Hollywood L.A. narrative, and New York, or the politics. Those really don’t give the people that live in this beautiful country what they deserve.
So when I came here—when I moved to Virginia, first, in 2002, it was just one year after 9/11—lots of lots of misconceptions. But I took this opportunity to answer questions, and most of the time, Adriane, people just want to learn. If you’re open to learning, and I mean, every once in a while you get people that really don’t have the right head on their shoulders, as we say it. But for the most part, it’s people that are curious about why I wear a headscarf, or why I’m doing what I’m doing, or just very simple things like, Oh, how old is your son or daughter? So really being different is definitely a conversation starter.
I also feel that I’m extremely privileged. I’m working on a project called the Middle Eastern Privilege. Just like when we think about all the privileges that we’ve been identifying as all of us think about, you know, DEI work—whether it’s white privilege, or wealth privilege, or socioeconomic status, or even being abled, then the differently-abled people, I think that I’m extremely privileged coming from the Middle East, definitely Egypt, because it’s the history and the culture, and those amazing ancient Egyptians that discovered all kinds of cool things.
But also, I have so much awareness of the world that I realized some people that live in the United States, in certain areas of the United States, that have never even been outside of their states, or sometimes their cities—whether it’s for economical reasons or for reasons they choose not to travel. But, in the Middle East, it’s really that amazing melting pot of cultures and dialects of individuals, religions, history. We’re very close to Europe. The tourism in Egypt, specifically. I’m also grateful for my father, who took us to a lot of areas in the Middle East. We used to live in Qatar, one of the Gulf area countries. That also exposed me, and my family—as a kid, to many, many things. So it’s definitely a privilege in many ways and also a conversation starter.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #2: Well, that’s a great way to start our conversation. You talk about important moments you have experienced breaking down barriers, and what this has meant in your life and in your career. Will you please share about this? 04:44
Essraa Nawar:
It changed my life, I’m telling you. It sounds very cliche to say that, but it’s exactly what happened—specifically when I moved with my family in 2008-2009 from Virginia to Alexandria, Egypt, where I used to work for the Library or the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, and then moved back to the United States. My husband and I being recruited to where we both work now at Chapman University in Orange, California.
This is when I was in my late 20’s. I had my three kids. I was a little bit more mature and understanding of the world. I think every day we understand the world a little bit more and we realize that the more you know, the more you realize what you don’t know, right? When I started my job at Chapman University—a year into my life at the university and the work that I was doing in the libraries, it was maybe 2011. It was right at the, as we say, the helm of Islamophobia. In addition to lots of misconceptions about Muslim women who choose to wear a headscarf, and also people coming from the Middle East, in addition to the Arab Spring. The Middle East is always a very hot topic, especially for Americans—definitely the politics. But also it tends to, unfortunately, dehumanize people. People don’t really necessarily read or know about the regular people that actually have families and know how to speak English so well.
I was getting all those questions, but the pivotal moment was when I started doing work in the exhibit space and events. One of the things that I was sharing at the time was the events and exhibits committee. I was tasked to curate the first ever Jewish exhibition. Coming from the Middle East, my interaction with Jewish people at the time was zero—zero. It was all through politics, and I didn’t know much about the religion itself except from what I know in my own scriptures and practices.
I was open to the idea, and I co-curated the exhibition with a couple of other colleagues. But that day, Adriane, after the event, one of the attendees came up to me and said, This is quite intriguing. A Muslim woman curating a Jewish exhibition in a university established by the Disciples of Christ Church.
That day definitely changed my life forever. It was like my own practices coming to life, my own misconceptions that were destroyed about so many things and that calling, you know. A lot of people say, I found my calling. I really thought that this is the day where I found my calling and how I want to live my life, and it took a lot of unlearning.
I love that concept so much. Unlearning, relearning, unlearning again, because you don’t have to be stuck on one idea or one narrative. Unlearn, relearn and relearn again. That was really something that definitely broke down a lot of barriers. From that day on, I was open. And, once you’re open, it’s that concept of manifestation and serendipity that I always talk about in my writings.
I feel like once I opened that door—the next morning I got invitations, because I started writing and blogging about this experience. Lots of invitations from nonprofits, institutions, webinars to talk about that experience. What does it mean to be a Muslim woman living in America and doing all these things? Once you break that barrier, Adriane, just like you and I were talking before—we become friends and you don’t really think about the differences anymore.
It’s been a beautiful journey that I’m extremely grateful for. Also, working in a profession that really gives spaces for people to share their stories and also get work done, because we also don’t have to spend hours and hours breaking barriers. We can spend some time getting to know each other, but then also get work done that is real and meaningful to the communities that we serve.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #3: And we are going to talk about the real work that you have done incorporating collections, events, displays and exhibits to engage communities and raise DEI awareness. What is possible in this realm? 08:50
Essraa Nawar:
Before I even answer that question, I want to acknowledge the efforts that have been done already all over the country, all over the world. Yes, some institutions have been more successful than the others. That is true. Sometimes it depends on that champion of DEI work, or multicultural immersion work. Sometimes it’s the institution that has a strategic plan that they have to go and actually apply it and make it happen. Sometimes it’s a group of individuals, and sometimes there is resistance. I totally understand.
But what’s really possible in that realm is to continue to be organic and holistic in the way we see diversity. That’s how I’ve defined diversity. What happened for me, specifically, is my own background working in different parts of the world between the Saudi Arabia Embassy in Washington, DC—at the Library of Alexandria. Coming from the Middle East, privileged really to come from that part of the world. Understanding different languages and different cultures, and really making time to actually get to know people. But also, one of the things that I was very adamant about from the beginning is if I’m going to do diversity, equity and inclusion work, I don’t have to forget the people that actually are here.
I think that’s where the resistance happens, Adriane. People tend to be very excited about ethnic food and all kinds of cool things, and Let’s do an exhibition to celebrate the Vietnamese New Year and the Chinese New Year and the Korean New Year, and Hispanic Heritage Month. All these amazing things that make this country what it is. But they also forget there are founding fathers and founding people, whether we agree or disagree with what happened. Right? There are things that you and I have nothing to do with, right? It’s historical narratives, that some of it is true. Some of it is untrue.
I grew up outside of the United States, so I continue to educate myself on issues of slavery, and the Civil War, and the civil rights movements, and what happened in the 60’s, and the African-American communities, and our Black African-American brothers and sisters. So, I’m not there yet, and I don’t think I’ll ever be there. But reading narratives and stories and understanding the space a little bit more makes me more sensitive to the history, but also understanding that there are people that lived at that time that have nothing to do with what happened as well.
I always give this hypothetical image of a family that lives in the Midwest, and with all my respect to all the people that live in the Midwest. Maybe it’s a family that chooses to live on a farm. Maybe they don’t have access to a lot of resources, but it’s a white family and it’s a beautiful family, equally beautiful to all of us. And, they don’t know anything except their local church, maybe, and their farm. And, they live a beautiful life.
Then this kid comes to any of the institutions that we all serve, and he or she doesn’t know anything except, you know, Christmas and Saint Patrick’s Day and, and Fourth of July’s—all the things that he or she grew up knowing about. That kid also needs to be represented in our diversity efforts.
Maybe last December, December of 2023, I wrote an article that some people thought was radical. Radical in a good way. Why I think saying Merry Christmas is a DEI effort. Most of the people actually liked the concept. A lot of people were like, Oh, but this and that. The way I view Christmas, it’s not just a religious holiday. It’s an American holiday.
When I moved from Egypt to the United States, the first thing I wanted to experience was Christmas. I mean, I grew up watching Home Alone, and for me, Christmas is America—America is Christmas, with its beautiful trees and all these things. The same way I incorporate a lot of DEI efforts and principles and all kinds of things that we do at Chapman University and the Leatherby libraries, I also insist to celebrate Christmas.
Maybe from a diverse perspective, maybe Christmas around the world, maybe how other countries celebrate Christmas. What people don’t understand is that I come from a country that has always celebrated Christmas. Most of the Middle East—now there are areas in the Middle East that celebrate Christmas in outrageous areas that you wouldn’t even think that they are celebrated.
So, organic, holistic, thinking also about the people that came before us—without being super sophisticated. Because the problem is, when you go deep and become super sophisticated about it—this is when it fails. Because at the end of the day, you’re serving people—real people like you and me. This is the angle that I try to choose to explore DEI from.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #4: I know a lot of librarians want to jump into this work, and as you mentioned, there can be barriers we encounter in bringing DEI resources to the forefront of our organizations. Will you talk a bit about that? 13:53
Essraa Nawar:
I think the barriers are some that we actually put ourselves. Those are things that sometimes they’re actually virtual barriers in our heads, like, Oh, I can’t do this because this person, or that community, is going to not like that, or I don’t have the budget. Sometimes DEI work doesn’t really need a lot of budget. DEI work also is not a job, and it’s not one person’s job. It’s a collective effort. That’s why we’ve been so successful at Chapman and Leatherby Libraries.
Yes, I have the DEI in my title and to be honest, and I say this all the time and as a joke, please don’t tell anyone that I don’t need it. Even though this is going to be all over the place, even at the university level, they understand that we’ve been doing DEI work collectively over the last ten, fifteen years. We’ve definitely progressed. We’ve looked at things differently. We’ve read, attended courses, but nobody is an expert in DEI work. It’s going to continue to change as the demographics of this country and the world changes.
We also focus so much on diversity of thought. So, the barrier is really in our head because a lot of people define diversity as sexuality, or gender, or socioeconomic status, and color. That’s really not—there are so many elements of diversity. Diversity is a multifaceted, multi-angle work that can be done from all different ways. So, if someone is not comfortable discussing sexuality, or gender—they can discuss it from a collection development point of view.
We have our Scholarly Communications librarian and she and I work together. We have a paper coming out about how we create buzz, and create outreach about all the resources that she brings to our attention at the university level. It’s been amazing working with her because she does DEI work in the open access space—the open textbook space. That’s also considered a highly DEI effort because it tackles accessibility and equity. So, DEI is defined in a very multifaceted way. And, you don’t have to push your agenda on people, and you have to see what people are comfortable with. Not everybody is going to do it from all the angles that we think they should do it. I think the barriers are really mostly in our head than anything else.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #5: I like you bringing up working with a colleague and how we can really work together. As we librarians communicate the importance of understanding and inclusion in our libraries. How can we do more collaboration? 16:36
Essraa Nawar:
Genuine. If you’re genuine, honestly. I don’t know how people perceive me. I hope I continue to be genuine in this work. But if you’re genuine, people are going to actually come and want to work with you. The reason, we think at least, that the library space that we are genuine in the way we do it, is that people want to work with us all the time. We actually are at the point where we have to say no. Whether it’s artists wanting to display their work because we have all kinds of ideas that we’ve been displaying and our diversity efforts have won international and national and regional awards, whether from local organizations or international organizations, because of how organic and genuine it is. Like our latest exhibition that is coming down in just a few days is about being accepting of autism, who would have known, right? We’ve discussed pretty much all religions and thought processes. And also as I mentioned, we define diversity of thought as extremely important for us. It could be a political thought. Communicating it becomes easier because you have the buy-in from people.
One other thing I also have been thinking about lately, you don’t have to satisfy everybody. I think the fact that sometimes we spend so much time making sure that this panel is balanced and it has a woman and a man, and other genders, and the color. Sometimes we put so much stress on ourselves, but sometimes that pipeline only has two men from a very specific background that are the experts. I’m not saying not to make the effort. Of course we should. We always have to. But sometimes we have budget restrictions, right? We want to discuss that specific topic, but again, we put those barriers in our head.
But if you’re genuine, people will feel how genuine you are, and you don’t have to really stress it. You don’t have to satisfy everybody. Some people, it’s like taking the back seat and trying to drive and you’re stuck in traffic and someone else is driving. Don’t feel guilty all the time, and don’t try to satisfy everybody, because there will always be some people that will think that you missed something, or you did something wrong, or you should have done it this way. We can all say this all the time, but I think there’s definitely an opportunity to throw something out there. Definitely be thoughtful about it. But once you’re genuine, people will want to collaborate with you—community members, trustees, donors, students, faculty, and you’ll have to have the power of saying no at some point.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #6: As we engage in this genuine work. Is there a way to encourage our communities to explore and engage with our DEI resources? 19:32
Essraa Nawar:
One of the things that we do in a very, very simple way, and I know libraries across the world, really local and regional and smaller ones—are those display cases. The good old fashioned display cases. I’m telling you, Adrian, they get a lot of attention. The only difference that we do at the library at Chapman is—we embed stuff. We just recently did—I’ll have to send you a picture of this, and people hearing us can definitely Google the Leatherby libraries. In a recent Indian Women in Fashion, we called it the Saris of India. It was during Women’s History Month, and my brain always thinks about difference. I want to celebrate women every day not just for a Women’s History Month, but it happens that there was this idea. I know that on our faculty there are so many women that come from India that definitely have saris, that definitely are very fashionable and we could collaborate with them. So, we created the bibliography that is very academic, attached to the curriculum and what the students and the community are researching and learning about. But also I reached out to the faculty members who gave us stuff, and that stuff I’m telling you, just engage the community.
Everybody was coming over and taking pictures with the display case. And, of course, you add the QR code that leads to the bibliography. You add this bibliography to your institutional repository. We’re always thinking about the physical and the virtual world. Believe me, people still take flyers, physical flyers. Some of them go to the QR code. So, you make it accessible for people’s preferences, or ideologies or what they are comfortable with.
That got a lot of attention because of the stuff. That’s just one example of many, many, many ones that we’ve done. We recently did a Vietnamese exhibition in honor of Tết, which is the Vietnamese, Chinese New Year. Again, got a lot of attention because we had stuff. Our dean is married to a Vietnamese woman, and they celebrate a lot of Vietnamese cultural activities in their home. So they had stuff. So we borrowed a few things from the family. His son, who attends the university, collaborated with us and he brought in the Vietnamese-American Association on campus. And we did a little event with some food and stuff.
That’s really how to engage—is to actually engage someone that belongs to that community, whatever is the community. By the way, even if it’s politics. I recently moderated a panel to engage people to vote, encourage people to vote. We had a Republican ex-congressman, and a Democratic ex-congresswoman. The library was super involved in creating a display to actually engage people in the civil discourse that this country seems to be forgetting about. I mean, I moved to this country because I remember back in the 90’s and the 80’s, especially at the time when Clinton was going to be the president. I remember my dad all the way from Egypt having the US news, and it was so beautiful to just see that political discourse—people agreeing to disagree and vice versa. So we were encouraging people to like, Look at both pictures and make a decision yourself. We’re not telling you what to vote, but engaging people and engaging real people. It was a beautiful event that also got a lot of attention. I’m hoping more and more people will explore those ideologies to open their hearts and brains and minds in many ways.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #7: Those sound like engaging exhibits and conversations. When people see something that catches their attention, they do want to get involved and see what you’re doing. So congratulations on that work. Essraa, is there anything else you’d like to share? 23:16
Essraa Nawar:
Oh, there’s a lot, but I think this was a really engaging conversation. I really appreciate it. One thing I always tell people—just be open. No one really has—I mean, there are people that definitely have agendas, but you feel them right away and you take a step back and you don’t have to be engaged. But most of the people that do this kind of work, whether it’s cultural work, interfaith, diversity, and really most of the people that work in libraries have no agenda beyond education. Really, the purpose of DEI work is education— getting people to get along. To be honest, from a personal perspective, it is so much fun too. As someone that loves to travel and loves to get to know people, just embrace the American culture equally, as my Egyptian part of my identity as well. Getting to know people from different backgrounds is the most beautiful thing. After a while, you actually end up thinking that these people have no differences between you and them, and the differences are something that you actually end up enjoying. So, that’s probably one thing I would love to encourage people to explore.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #8: Do you have any favorite leadership books or resources, and why? 24:37
Essraa Nawar:
If I’m talking academically, Who Moved My Cheese remains one of my favorite books. The reason I recommend it the most is because it’s a small book, right? People recommend all kinds of deep books, but I think Who Moved My Cheese is very simple, up to the point, and it continues to be relevant—to people that are studying leadership theories. I read it when I was doing my master’s in leadership development, and it was one of my favorite books. Even though there are other people that have leadership theories that I continue to enjoy, like Servant Leadership, and Robert Greene definitely—48 Laws of Power. All kinds of things. But going back to that book, listening to it—whether audio.
Also, from a podcast perspective, I think in the library world you’re definitely one of the top. There’s also a lot of other people that are doing amazing work. I also appreciate Mel Robbins. If you’re not following her, I think she is definitely someone that brings in amazing perspectives about self-development, leadership—how to live your life in many ways. There are things that I listen to in her podcast and I apply in my personal and professional life as well.
I love to share the amazing poet Rumi. I know a lot of people read Rumi, but not in the way they should be reading Rumi—just the quotes, but his poetry and linking Rumi to your day-to-day life has been something I’ve enjoyed a lot recently.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #9: Essraa, in closing, what do libraries mean to you personally? 26:11
Essraa Nawar:
I will sound like I’m repeating myself again because we were just discussing this. But they are sanctuaries. They are, in many ways, the same feeling I get in the library is the same feeling I get when I go to any place of worship I visit, whether for tourism or in my own practice. They are. I was sharing this with someone who was doing some consulting work at a library, and that person was asking us, What do you think the students would like to see in the library of the future? And I said, Sanctuaries. We did a little focus group. I’m not sure how big or how good the sample is statistically, but statistics is statistics, you can always talk about it.
But the focus group had maybe thirty students between the ages of eighteen to twenty-five. We asked the students over lunch, what would you like to see in the library of the future? All of them—most of them, I would say, said something like, We don’t want to see another Microsoft or Apple Store. With all my respect to Apple and Microsoft, we are seeing a tremendous amount of technological advancement because of these companies and others. I think I’m one of those people that embraces the AI and any other technologies to make our life easier and more efficient. But when it comes to libraries, students, even the younger ones, want that warm library feeling—definitely technologically advanced. They want their coffee. They want their Wi-Fi, because they’re still using their laptop, but they still love that—the sense of books. That’s why we’ve been very reluctant in actually changing the way some of the things look and taking completely the books out, because everything is accessible online. I don’t believe in that, and even the younger students don’t believe in that.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #10: Libraries as sanctuaries. I think that is so important. And particularly, when we talk about promoting cultural understanding and inclusion, because a sanctuary is a place where you can come and be yourself and feel that warmth and gain understanding in that space. So I’m glad you mentioned that. Thank you so much, Essraa. It’s been wonderful having you on the podcast today. 28:07
Essraa Nawar:
Same here, Adriane. I’ve been very excited to get in touch with you. Thank you for reaching out to me. It’s been a pleasure getting to know you just as a conversation, and I hope to see you soon.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
I hope to see you soon too. Thank you.
You’ve been listening to Library Leadership podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes, tune in to Library Leadership Podcast.com, where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right to your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.
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