What can your organization do to embrace mentoring as part of succession planning? On this show, Ann Marie Barrett, Manager of the Bingham Creek Branch, and Maggie Mills, Manager of the Whitmore Branch, with Salt Lake County Library, talk about everything to consider when making mentoring part of your succession planning.
Transcript
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Adriane Herrick Juarez:
This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast, where we talk about libraries and leadership, and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations, and strategic insights in the profession.
What can your organization do to embrace mentoring as part of succession planning? On this show, Ann Marie Barrett, Manager of the Bingham Creek Branch, and Maggie Mills, Manager of the Whitmore Branch with the Salt Lake County Library talk about everything to consider when making mentoring part of your succession planning. Enjoy the show!
Maggie and Ann Marie, welcome to the show.
Maggie Mills:
Hi, happy to be here.
Ann Marie Barrett:
Thank you for having us.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #1: We are here to discuss mentoring as part of succession planning. As we start, why is it essential to consider succession planning and include mentoring in that process? 01:25
Ann Marie Barrett:
Well, it’s a very big part of a well-rounded program. There’s a lot of pieces that go in there, but that personal one-on-one interaction is super critical to helping people establish relationships and network within the existing library system. That’s one of the reasons that we’ve made it such a big part of our succession plan that we’ve got at Salt Lake County Library.
It is a wonderful opportunity also for people to see new styles of management and leadership. We really stress trying to make sure that mentors are matched up with people who are not their direct supervisors, so that they’re getting a new, fresh experience and having more learning opportunities.
Maggie Mills:
There’s a big benefit to having someone you can talk to that’s not your supervisor or in your chain of command, because they can provide additional support as you go through a succession or leadership development program. So this is a great method to provide one- on-one advising, or instruction, and feedback that’s tailored to the participants.
Mentoring can be a great way to help them build on their strengths, to be introspective and consider their impacts on others. They can push their comfort zone and get so much more benefit when they’re willing to be open and vulnerable within the safety of this framework, and are willing to be open to feedback. Working with their mentor they can discuss challenges they’re having professionally, or maybe in the succession program.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #2: What does mentoring look like as part of succession planning? 03:04
Maggie Mills:
That’s a great question. It’s so helpful when the organization supports informal mentoring relationships. So, consider creating a formal mentoring program either as a standalone effort or as part of a succession planning leadership development program. Providing support for mentors and mentees is crucial in building that leadership pipeline.
Ann Marie Barrett:
When I look at it, one of the ways to help support mentoring programs is to make sure that that can happen on work time. Honestly, people are busy. We’ve got a lot going on in our personal lives. If both mentors and mentees can do that within the framework of work, that is a great way to support and show that your system encourages, or just your library, encourages, and believes in taking the time to invest in your people—help grow people in the positions they’re in, but also help prepare them for the potential to step into future roles, and learn things that they wouldn’t have had an opportunity in their existing position. So, that would probably be my main suggestion there.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #3: Organizationally, what processes can we implement to support mentoring as part of succession planning? 04:13
Ann Marie Barrett:
Regular meetings—critical, honestly. Having a timeline and a regular setup so that people know what to expect and when, and it’s just built in. It’s a lot easier to do. Like I said, we’re all busy and it’s much easier if we’ve got it planned out. People know when it’s happening and don’t have to worry about, Oh, reschedule, reschedule—all the time.
Also, having people have a good idea of how long, and how frequently, and the format—I personally have a big preference for in-person. I feel like it’s so much easier to be able to make those connections and build relationships, especially if you don’t have an existing one. But, sometimes online or on-phone need to happen instead. And that’s—just figuring that out, building into that—maybe setting some goals and talking about your progress as you go along.
Maggie Mills:
I think it’s really good to clarify expectations for both the mentor and the mentee. For example, does the mentee need to bring questions to their meetings, or does the mentor provide lessons and give assignments? Some of this will depend on the styles and preferences of the mentor, as well as the needs of the mentee. And for some, the expectation could be just to discuss and share about things that the mentee’s learning in the program, or challenges they’re dealing with professionally. Allowing for that kind of flexibility is really crucial.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #4: Are there any tips you would give to mentors or mentees to get them started in these processes? 05:45
Ann Marie Barrett:
So for me, gosh, getting started—take the time. Take it slow. Don’t feel like you have to dive in immediately. Personally, take the time to build that relationship. It’s really important.
Maggie Mills:
I would reiterate what Ann Marie said—to try to meet in person if you can. But no matter how you do it, get to develop that relationship. Then allow some flexibility. And definitely, once the mentor and mentee become more comfortable with each other, there’s more likelihood of that vulnerability—and you’re more open, hopefully, to feedback that sometimes might be kind of hard. But then also, the mentee could have more trust in the kind of questions, or what the kind of things they might share with their mentor.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #5: What success stories do you have about mentoring as part of succession planning? 06:46
Ann Marie Barrett:
Mine is—I felt like it was almost more of a success story for me. I mean, hopefully, it was helpful for my mentee as well. I remember being in a situation where I was mentoring somebody who I hadn’t worked with closely in the past. There were certain things I’d heard from other people who had worked with them more closely that weren’t always favorable. I mean, there were good things, too, of course, but I went in thinking that I was going to meet a certain kind of person. As we took the time—got to know each other, I discovered that this person was a lot more open to feedback and learning and growing, really becoming a very different person from what these other people had represented them to be—had some pretty big things happen and had some opportunities to learn and grow as a person.
And so for me, it was a wonderful opportunity to see, oh my gosh, this person wasn’t who I thought. But also really, they were so much more receptive to some of the things that we wound up talking about. And, there was a lot of growth that happened there—at least it looked like that for me from the outside. I think that was a wonderful testimony to me of like, oh my gosh, how wonderful is mentoring, and that it can help people grow and change, and hopefully, also offer value to the individual. I know I learned a lot from them in that interaction.
Maggie Mills:
We had a participant that I mentored at one point. They had come into the program with some challenges. They’d had a bit of a damaged reputation, and they also didn’t interview very well. I’d interviewed them before. Through mentoring, we found that they really were more open to change than we previously had thought, or maybe they just hadn’t received good or useful feedback before. I had a great time working with them. Sometimes there may not be a spot in your organization for someone who’s gone through a succession planning program, but the great thing is they might move into another county agency or another library. That reflects well then, on your organization. But I’m happy to report that they moved into a leadership role in another organization where they’re thriving and very successful. They really found their niche.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #6: Is this a formal program of the Salt Lake County Library? 09:18
Maggie Mills:
Yes it is. It started, I believe, three years ago now, and it runs on a calendar year in the fall. We do recruitment, and we’re ready to go come January with new classes. Ann Marie can tell us more about the recruiting and all of that.
Ann Marie Barrett:
Yeah, we’re actually making some big changes to the program already this year—for the upcoming year. We, right now, had it focused on our assistant managers. We did have a separate program running with our assistant supervisors. What we’ve decided is that it’s much more effective to fold those two programs into each other. So this year, we’re in the process of figuring out how to mesh those two together. We have a lot of meetings as a group that involve training and discussions, book readings, self-directed learning, projects—because these people are part of this program we know they’re interested and are able to hook them up with other opportunities that we may not be aware are going to come up over that calendar year, which could be involving them in helping interview for sub librarian positions or things like that. It’s pretty awesome, so we do have the formal mentoring process where people are assigned a mentor and they meet with them monthly as part of the program. It’s really wonderful.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #7: What would you recommend for anyone wishing to build a pathway to success in mentoring as part of succession planning? 10:52
Maggie Mills:
First, I’d recommend doing an organizational assessment—seeing what your needs are and identifying gaps. Then using that information—create a flexible framework to address these. Then build in regular assessment of the program to stay on top of changing needs, previously unidentified gaps, and engage in continuous improvement for the program.
We do quarterly surveys of the participants to see how it’s going. As the mentoring liaison, I check in with the duos on a quarterly basis also, to see how that’s going, and to see if I can provide any support with that. But having all this checking-in regularly, I think it is pretty crucial.
Ann Marie Barrett:
Definitely have to echo that for Maggie, that’s a huge piece that we’ve built in, is the feedback—both from our participants, but we also have a feedback piece that comes from the people who are heading up the work group that leads this program, so that mid-year and then end of year of program our participants are getting feedback from multiple different people who’ve interacted with them, not just their mentor, so that they’re getting a wide spread of like, This is how you’re viewed by different people. Sometimes it doesn’t always add up to the same picture, which can be very helpful information for people to have.
Another thing that I would definitely recommend is generating buy-in within your system for those people who are going to potentially be serving as mentors. Our mentors do not come exclusively from our work group. We do have some work group members who do serve as mentors, but we also draw from other leadership sources within the system. So, it’s really important that people feel empowered to volunteer and step up. Also, if they’re newer to mentoring, providing them with tools and support so that they can feel confident in being able to do a good job, because being a mentor—you’re a big influence on somebody else and being able to do that well, there’s a lot of pressure there. So, if somebody is new to it—helping them feel like they can succeed in that role is very important.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #8: Is there anything else you’d like to share? 13:17
Ann Marie Barrett:
I mean, this sounds so obvious, but be willing to invest the time. If you are actually mentoring, it’s going to take time to build the relationships. It takes time to get to the place where you can give people feedback that they’re really going to receive and maybe act on and know how to do it so that it’s going to match well with their personality, and their personal needs in their life, and being able to time it right. Making sure they feel comfortable enough so that, you know, Oh gosh, maybe there’s a big family crisis going on right now, and now is not the time to have difficult feedback with somebody. When you’re a mentor, unless you’re in a supervisory role, it’s not time critical, necessarily, to be providing that feedback right now, unless you have some real serious reason to step into that conversation, you can time those a lot better when you’re in a mentoring relationship and don’t have those supervisory roles tied into that.
It also is really important to make sure that you’re investing in your branch and system so that people can continue to carry that torch as mentors. Sometimes you get into an organization where there are one or two people that are really invested in mentoring and being mentors and taking the time, and that’s great, but they can’t be your only people. You need to make sure that you’re building people up so that when somebody has a wonderful opportunity somewhere else, or they decide to retire, you’re not left without your team of really great mentors. So, make sure that you’re opening those opportunities up to people who are newer and maybe a little less experienced. Help people understand how valuable it is, and find the joy in mentoring so that you don’t lose your good mentors at some point.
Maggie Mills:
I would suggest being deliberate when you’re creating your mentor/mentee matches, as much as it’s possible. That could potentially ensure that participants are matched with a mentor that can meet their individual needs. Also, I want to mention that there are a lot of resources out there that can be helpful. I would recommend checking with your state, regional, or even national library associations. A lot of them have mentoring programs, which are great to be involved in, but they also have information that could be useful if you’re creating a program with mentoring in it too.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #9: Thank you. Do you have any favorite leadership books or resources, and why? 15:48
Maggie Mills:
I really like Dare to Lead, by Brené Brown, and Lead Like it Matters, by Roxi Bejar Hewertson. I hope I said that correctly. I find a lot of Brené Brown’s work to be really useful, and I appreciate that it’s backed up by data. I’ve used it in leadership book discussions in other leadership development, like with the chamber and things like that. It’s perfect for that. There’s a lot of supportive material that helps—supplemental material. Then Lead Like it Matters uses research also, and the author’s experience to provide practical tools for making positive change in your organization.
Ann Marie Barrett:
Okay. I’m also a huge big Brené Brown fan, and so yeah—Dare to Lead, so amazing, and anything else she’s written. Really great for building relationships just in general. But I also would say Radical Candor by Kim Scott is amazing. I know it’s not always—it is a leadership book, but it’s also a lot of a communication book, and mentoring is a lot about communication. That’s probably, maybe, a little bit more where my mindset went when I thought of leadership books in regards to mentoring.
I’ve also got to say Crucial Conversations as well is just incredible. I’m always having to remind myself of various things that are covered in that book, one of them being, focus on what you’re really trying to accomplish. So many times in conversations with people, it’s very easy to get off track, especially in a mentoring conversation. If there’s somewhere you need to go, really focusing on that target place to go and not getting yourself off track. They have some great stuff that covers that, actually.
Finally, this isn’t really—you could use it and flip it as a mentor, but Thanks for the Feedback by Douglas Stone is excellent. Which is more like, Hey, how to receive feedback, but hopefully you could also flip it a little bit as a mentor and see how you should, maybe, be evaluating how you are going about forming your feedback for people to make it a little bit easier to receive. However, as a mentor, sometimes you get feedback too, and it’s important to be able to receive that and demonstrate how to gracefully receive feedback to your mentee.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #10: In closing, what do libraries mean to you personally? 18:21
Maggie Mills:
Well, libraries are my happy place and my home. From the first time the bookmobile came to my elementary school in rural Montana, I’ve always just been in love with libraries, and I am so thrilled and proud to be part of such an important community institution, and one that’s for everyone, and one that can make a positive difference in people’s lives.
Ann Marie Barrett:
I gotta say seriously, yes—childhood memories are so built foundationally on the library. It was my home and my safe place. I had a wonderful family, but that was my home away from home. It was the place to be. As I’ve grown and learned more about what libraries were as I got older, to realize it’s a place of accessibility and availability for information and meeting the needs of the community just made me believe in it so much more. It’s a place where amazing things happen and mission-focused on trying to make the world a better place. How wonderful to be involved in something like that, while also being at my home away from home when I go to work. That’s amazing.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Thank you both for those thoughts. What you do to implement mentoring as part of succession planning ensures that the type of experiences you’re talking about in libraries get passed down to other librarians as essential values in your organization—guaranteeing positive memories continue for generations to come. Thank you both so much for being here to share this today.
Maggie Mills:
Thank you so much for having us.
Ann Marie Barrett:
It has been a pleasure. Thank you.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
You’ve been listening to Library Leadership podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes, tune in to Library Leadership Podcast.com, where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right to your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.
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