Have you ever wanted to create a fun way to develop in-house leaders in your library? On this show, Judi Boyce, Assistant Director at Sublette County Library, Erin Wahl, Associate Professor University Archivist at New Mexico State University Library, and Eileen Wright, Library Director at Montana State University Billings, discuss a method they formed to develop in-house leaders that involves games, play, and a pirate theme to make learning about leadership fun.
Transcript
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Adriane Herrick Juarez:
This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast, where we talk about libraries and leadership, and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations, and strategic insights in the profession.
Have you ever wanted to create a fun way to develop in-house leaders in your library? On this show, Judi Boyce, Assistant Director at Sublette County Library Erin Wahl, Associate Professor, University Archivist at New Mexico State University Library, and Eileen Wright, Library Director at Montana State University Billings, discuss a method they formed to develop in-house leaders that involves games, play, and a pirate theme to make learning about leadership fun. Enjoy the show!
Judi, Erin and Eileen, welcome to the show.
Judi Boyce:
Hi, thank you.
Erin Wahl:
Hi, thanks for having us.
Eileen Wright:
Hi, this is Eileen from MSU Billings.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #1: Hi, everyone. I’m so happy to have you here. Today we are discussing developing in-house leaders, and I’m particularly excited about this discussion because you all do this with a fun twist as a pirate-themed activity. So, I’m happy to have you three mateys on board with me. Let’s jump right into this pirate librarian leadership discussion. The first thing you talk about in your leadership training is something called Cull the Crew. Eileen. What is that? 01:36
Eileen Wright:
Cull the Crew is—we start off with just talking about the differences between being a leader and a manager. Everyone hears it. You’re a leader. You’re a manager. A lot of us in our jobs are actually both. I think sometimes what happens, within our own staff, we forget that these two jobs are really separate. One who’s inspiring us to succeed in our roles—it’s empowering our staff to know they got this, they can do this. But then you have the managerial side and you’re having to do the day-to-day tasks, and the budgeting. So what happens is that we have them come together, and we give them a list of all these terms of managers and leadership, and they’re all mixed up. We want them to take them and divide them between a manager and a leader so they can see the different concepts and say, Oh, right, these are separate. These are different. So, that’s the first game we play.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #2: Which makes training fun. How does that look? 03:02
Eileen Wright:
The game base was just so much fun, because each one of our concepts we turned into a game. Judy has one. Erin has one. I have one. We would introduce the concept and then we would play a game, because we all know we learn through play. This was such a fun way to do this and to have—just excitement and re-energize this whole idea of everyone can be a leader, no matter where they are in their career. And, all three of us are in different places in our lives and different places, in fact, in libraries. So we came together and it was because of Erin.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #3: Yea, Erin, and when you Cull the Crew, no one has to walk the plank, right? This is a safe game. 03:39
Eileen Wright:
This is a safe game. No one walks the plank. It is really fun. When we did this two times, we had people putting some of the terms on both sides. We had to say, Well, why do you think it belongs there, why do you think it’s there? It allowed for some great conversations between people in the room to say, Well, that thing, providing structure—that’s something I feel like I have to do as a manager. But then providing structure could be something as a leader, because you’re giving them structure in their job and helping them succeed where they’re going to go.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #4: I can see how that would help people figure out what they do as managers, leaders and both. So that sounds fantastic. Moving to the next question. A great way to develop leaders is something you call Parrot the Pros. How does this work, Judy. 04:15
Judi Boyce:
So, Parrot the Pros is a game that we came up with that gets people up and moving. We wanted people to not just have to sit the whole time. This would work really well if you’re just doing this for your staff at a meeting, or something too. But, what we wanted to do was to come up with something that was fast-paced but still leadership-themed.
We took questions such as, name something that a leader should delegate? We would pair the two teams against each other. In the case of the workshops that we did, we had everybody divided by tables. We would take one table versus another table, and they would come up to the front and would pair off against each other. Actually on the cruise, we did this with a beach ball so they could just randomly throw to whoever they wanted to. When you were the one who got the ball, you had to give a quick answer that fit the category. If you’re having to name something that a leader would delegate, maybe you would have to come up with an answer that would very quickly fit that category, and then you toss the ball to the next person.
We gave them about ten seconds or so. If they couldn’t come up with something, they were out. If they named something very quick, the ball got passed quicker. It just was a really fast-paced game. But ‘last man standing, or last librarian standing was the winner. Then we took the winners from each of the tables, and we paired them against each other to have one ultimate winner. So, that’s how we played that game.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #5: And the concept of Parroting the Pros is something that points to the fact that there are people out there who are doing this work, and there are ways that we can parrot them to learn from them. Is that right? 06:02
Judi Boyce:
Yes, the concept of the whole game was that we wanted people to start thinking like a leader. They would put themselves in the position where, If I was the leader, how would I handle this situation? Or, what are some of the things I might need to think about doing in a different way than I would normally do them?
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #6: Thank you Judy. Any good pirate knows that X marks the spot when it comes to finding treasure, including leadership treasure. What does your Map the Movement activity involve, Erin? 06:31
Erin Wahl:
Map the Movement was probably one of the tamer ones that we did, [laughter] because it really was everybody sitting down and being creative for a little while and being critical about what they’re doing. Everybody was given a piece of paper and we shared our different journeys towards leadership. If you look at our resumes, our CVs, we’ve all taken really, really different paths to leadership—even into librarianship. We just wanted people to think about where they were at and where they wanted to go, ideally. And then, of course, there’s always little side quests. So like, what would your side quest be? How would you mark these things? Basically they created a treasure map to get to their ultimate goal. They could make any kinds of little side quests, or whatever they wanted to add to it, if that makes sense.
One of the fun parts of that was sharing our three different journeys, so that they could see that Eileen and Judy are in actual administrative positions, and they’re very, very wonderful and fancy. I’m not there yet. In my career, I don’t think leadership looks like having a manager role to me anymore. So, each of us having the chance to talk about the way we got there and how it looks so different to all of us—it really is rooted in our own values and what we think is important in the field and what we think is important to each of us personally, our own personal leadership styles and goals, if that makes sense.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #7: Absolutely. Each map to leadership is so unique. I like that that gives each person a chance to think about their own path, where they’re headed, what they’ve seen other people do, and create that development particular to themselves. Once people have their maps, how do they do what you call Dig for Development, and what does this mean, Judi? 08:26
Judi Boyce:
Well, when we were looking at Dig for Development, we were thinking about how we can encourage people to find resources that they can use to make their own leadership skills improve. Basically, if you’re thinking about, How can I build my resume? How can I gain those skills I’m going to need if I want to become a leader and I’m not in a leadership position already?
We talked about things like getting involved in your state organizations—your library associations. We all met through Mountain Plains Library Association. We wanted to pump that for anyone who might be in a state that would fit into MPLA, because this all came from a leadership institute that we attended together. That was a big part of why we wanted to tell people about that, because we wanted them to look for opportunities like that to develop. Like Erin was saying, all of our paths were different—how we got to leadership, and the different roles that we took on within our state and within our other organizations, and even within our communities. We wanted people to think outside the box and how they might be able to develop their skills.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #8: That means really digging down to the resources that will help you be the leader you want to be. And also, just a huge shout-out to the Mountain Plains Library Association Leadership Institute. I was involved in that and can attest it’s an amazing experience. It’s great that you became acquainted there and are bringing this training forward based on that. Let’s go ahead and talk about the last concept in your training, and in these games. You teach leaders in this fun way to Take Care of the Treasure. What’s that about, Eileen? 10:01
Eileen Wright:
That one to me is the most fun. Of course, we’ve been playing games throughout this whole presentation that we’re doing—this training we’re doing. When you’re at your work, and you’re working with your staff, I think all of us sometimes get bogged down with the day-to-day tasks and with projects, and you see the stress levels going up.
It’s so important to make sure you still have fun at work. It’s so important to make sure you take that ten minutes to play that game of Scattergories, or to do a fishbowl game. It’s really important, especially where I’m working. I’m always making sure that we take the time to do that water cooler thing. Everyone also just comes around. We’re sitting around the puzzle to take that mental break because we get stressed out at work, and we need to have laughter. You need to make sure you have laughter at work. I know we need to be serious. I know we have work to do, but when we’re happy and we’re having laughter and we’re all coming together as a team to have fun, it makes your day and the productivity level—it goes up. So, it’s just very important to me to also look at our own people holistically, not just saying, Okay, this is your job. You got to get this done. We need to have some fun. We need to have fun at work.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #9: And it looks like you have something to add, Judi? 11:46
Judi Boyce:
I think one of the fun things about this—these are just get-to-know-you type games. These are something that we played when we were at the Leadership Institute in the evening when everybody was just trying to chill and relax and get to know each other. We did these activities—we had this progressive painting that we did where everybody would start. You had just a couple of minutes to paint something. Then you would pass it and the next person would add to the painting—everybody was doing this. So at the table—we had probably eight different paintings going. It just kept getting passed until everybody had added stuff to it. And really, it’s just about team building. The creation isn’t really the point, but I think people really relax and talk to each other differently when they’re doing something fun rather than work related. That was the emphasis of this—is how can you build your team and just get everybody to know each other better?
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #10: When we are playing and having fun, we can use that to help us be our best. Which is why your pirate fun concept is so great. You even got to teach this on a cruise. It doesn’t get much better than that. Is there anything else you’d like to share? 12:47
Judi Boyce:
I think for me, one of the most rewarding parts is—we did a pre-conference for ULA, and then on the cruise we just did an hour and a half session. Both times I was really encouraged to see how people interacted, and the ideas that were tossed around. When we were doing the Map Your Movement, everybody had a chance to sit and really think about how their progress looks and what they want to do next.
Then we gave them time to talk, and they shared their maps with each other at their tables. Then they shared it on a larger scale. I think people came out with a lot of ideas that they had never thought of—maybe wouldn’t have thought of unless it had been for hearing different people share what they had done.
People were saying, Oh, I hadn’t thought of doing that. That’d be great. That happened for us in the team-building game—the Take Care of Your Treasure portion too. Particularly on the cruise, we had people that were from so many different backgrounds. We had a lot of academic librarians at that one. A lot of people were sharing what they had done in their place of work, or what they had done with student workers that came in and how they could use some of these ideas. There was a lot of game-idea sharing in that one.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #11: And Judi, Erin and Eileen, I’m imagining our listeners sitting out there and hearing how you’re doing this, and getting really excited about this concept. You did this on a cruise, and you did this at ULA, which is the Utah Library Association Conference. If someone wants to get involved, how would they do that? 14:24
Erin Wahl:
Well, I mean, one thing they could do is go to the Wyoming Library Association Conference because I believe Judi is doing this program there, again [laughter] —shameless, shameless plug for Judi’s work.
Judi Boyce:
I think that people could take any part of this. They wouldn’t have to do the entire set of things that we did. These were just some ideas, and our goal in going into this was that people would take our ideas—take them back to their libraries and use a portion, or the whole thing, or however much they wanted to with their own coworkers. I think, particularly, the one that seemed to have the most impact, for me at least, was the Map Your Movement section, because it just makes people really think about where they’re at and where they want to go and how they might get there. I think whenever you’re more aware and more focused on stuff like that, you see more opportunities as well.
Eileen Wright:
This whole experience working with Erin and Judi has been a blast. Three different personalities and three different ways of thinking about things was just—it was so energizing to come together like that and to develop this whole leadership presentation together. It was very enjoyable to have this experience. It came about because of our MPLA Leadership Institute.
We came together as Mentor Fellows and to have this develop out of it—this is just, it’s just wonderful. I am just very happy that I got to know Erin and Judi, so much more because of the Leadership Institute, but because of this presentation. Because we would come together and we would work weekly on different sections and we’d be like, Oh, did you get this done? Did you get that done? And, the fact that when we got together we just had such positive feedback from this experience and it just validated like, Yeah. We knew we had something good and it really was, and I thank them for that opportunity.
Judi Boyce:
I agree this was such a wonderful opportunity for me to stretch my skills. I would not have thought of doing something on this big of a scale, but Erin came up with this idea. I think the cruise was a big motivating factor in that. But, when we were at Leadership Institute, we had talked about how we can move forward working together on something, whether that would be writing papers or presenting somewhere. And, this opportunity came up and Erin sent out a message asking, Would anybody be interested in this? And I thought, Well, yeah, I’d be interested in this. But, I didn’t really think it was going to happen. Then it did, and it was just such a cool opportunity that I didn’t—I probably would never have had made myself do this, on my own at least. So that’s a good example of leaders pushing other people to be leaders.
Erin Wahl:
Yeah, my superpower is being obnoxious about these kinds of opportunities. So, I just utilize that. I think that to really say a lot about MPLA’s Leadership Institute—it’s probably the single best professional development I’ve done in my entire career so far, and I really don’t think anything else will ever top it. It gave me everything I couldn’t get.
We all know that sometimes you’re in a library and there’s just no space to move up in the way that is traditional. So you have to think about other ways of doing things. This group of people overall gave me the space to think about—maybe my path to leadership is not exactly the same, and maybe I don’t need to be like a department head, or a director, or something like that. Maybe it’s something different. So my personal path really changed a lot from that. Then I got to bother people like Judi and Eileen all the time [laughter] which is wonderful. I can’t say enough good things about that. If you’re in one of the MPLA states, you definitely have to put your application in. You just—it’s the best thing you’ll do in my opinion.
Judi Boyce:
I couldn’t agree more. You know, it’s a whole week and you’re set aside. We happened to be at Estes Park for ours. To just set aside all the other concerns that you deal with all the time, this was so different than anything I’ve been to. Because, you know, you couldn’t just hop on your computer and check your email. It was really a focus time.
Eileen Wright:
I’ve got to experience it both ways. I got to be part of the Fellow and then got to be a mentor. Again, when I first was there, I was in the same position as Erin. I wasn’t sure where I was going at the time, and I knew this gave me the confidence to be a leader within my own library and to be a leader within my own committees and to go forward. But being now on the mentor side, and then seeing that side was just again—it was an experience that I am so happy I got to be part of, thank you to MPLA for that.
Judi Boyce:
Eileen makes a really good point there with the leadership within where you’re at. That’s one of the main points we were trying to make with our first game—with what is a skill that a manager has versus a leader? The idea is that you don’t have to be in a position of leadership to be a leader. That was what we were going for with that.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #12: That’s a great point. Eileen, I was also a Fellow and a mentor in the Mountain Plains Library Association Leadership Institute, and I can’t speak highly enough about it. We have listeners all across the nation, and for those folks who are not in the Mountain Plains region, I know there are other wonderful leadership institutes out there, and I would encourage anyone to get involved. What I’m so proud of about you all is that you took what you learned at your Leadership Institute and worked together to bring those concepts to others in the profession through this training, and now you’re sharing it with me. So, thank you. Do you have any favorite leadership books or resources and why? 20:22
Erin Wahl:
Besides the Leadership Institute, I think that two of my best resources are sitting in this Zoom call with me. I learned so much from these two alone. The people you surround yourself with in your career is really important. I feel like you want to make sure you don’t stay—I’m an academic librarian, but it’s really important that I don’t pay attention to just academic librarians. But, Judi over there is like a public library rock star—just killing it over there. I have learned so much from her, for example, about civic engagement. And from Eileen I’ve learned she’s just like the best kind of wacky in the whole world. I learned all the fun parts of leadership from Eileen. The people you surround yourself with is really important. And I’m lucky to have these two.
Eileen Wright:
Thank you Erin. I really do appreciate that a lot. And I totally agree. The people around you really make a difference. I did have a book title in mind. It’s on my dead computer. It’s Trust, but I can’t remember the author’s name. It’s a very thin book and we were actually using it at my Little Library Mini-Retreat here in the library, because we were talking about effective communication and how it leads to trust within your workplace—talking about how trust is not just one aspect, there’s four aspects to it. That was one of the books I was using within the library. But I could always send the title and the author later. Sorry. I’m trying to get the other computer up and running. And it’s…
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #13: We are all librarians, Eileen. We will find it. Don’t you worry. We’ve got those superpowers. 22:35
Judi Boyce:
I would say the most impactful book on leadership that I’ve read is called Shackleton’s Way, which is not your typical leadership book. This is something that I studied because of a class I was taking through the University of Nebraska at Omaha. I have a bachelor’s in library science from there. If you really read that story and learn about Shackleton, and all the challenges he faced and how he managed his people—he was really the key to why any of them survived. And so for me, that was the most impactful.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #14: In closing, what do libraries mean to you personally? 23:19
Eileen Wright:
For me, it’s a sense of belonging. It’s a sense that people can all come to a place where they can find an adventure. They can find an answer which could lead to more questions. It’s a place where we can all find resources and every type of resource, and it’s free and there’s help there. It’s the idea of just like it’s a place where we can belong and everyone can belong.
Judi Boyce:
I come at this from a public library perspective, and I just feel like libraries are, I guess, a happy place. They’re my happy place. That’s what they were for me before I was a librarian, and that’s what they still are for me now. I think about—in my typical day, I have people that come in and they need to print something, or they aren’t familiar with computers, or we have those kids that don’t have anywhere else to go all summer—and so they’re all over the place in the library. Our particular library is not a quiet library, which sometimes can be challenging, but for the most part, we just really enjoy having the kids there. I just think of it as an opportunity to meet everybody where they’re at and help them find what they need. And I just love all the people that come in, and building relationships with those people and everything—and, of course, the books. I love the books.
Erin Wahl:
I guess for me, because I’m in dissertation and post-tenure [laughter] recovery. So, I still think about stuff in terms, sometimes, of my research. But for me, libraries are the great connectors. Of all the systems that we belong to, libraries are pervasive throughout them. They’re like these little moments of connection. We connect people to other people. We connect people to books and resources. We connect people through programming. We connect communities together. We start things. We finish things. We do all of it.
So to me, this is just part of the bigger system. We’re one of the reasons the system works as well as it does. Defund your libraries and you have a big problem in your areas. They run important services and they provide important resources. It doesn’t get any better than this.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #15: It doesn’t get any better than this, and it doesn’t get any better than talking to the three of you. It’s been so much fun talking to you about developing in-house leaders and your commitment to this, so that those in our organizations can lead the way in doing just the sort of things you’re talking about, making impacts in their communities. Well, maybe [laughter] the only thing that could have made this better is if we’d all talked like pirates throughout the interview. I don’t know if I’ve got that in me, but it was a blast. Thank you all for being here today. 25:49
Eileen Wright: Erin Wahl: Judi Boyce:
Thank you for having us.
Erin Wahl:
There we are, [laughter] the three of us
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
You’ve been listening to Library Leadership podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes, tune in to Library Leadership Podcast.com, where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right to your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.
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