Have you wondered how you can support neurodivergent staff and volunteers in the workplace? On this show, Renee Grassi (she/her), Librarian and Accessibility Consultant, discusses cultivating an inclusive work environment for neurodivergent team members, including accessible communication and promoting neurodiversity in our organizations.
Transcript
This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast where we talk about libraries and leadership, and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations, and strategic insights in the profession.
Have you wondered how you can support neurodivergent staff and volunteers in the workplace? On this show Rene Grassi, Librarian and Accessibility Consultant, discusses cultivating an inclusive work environment for neurodivergent team members, including accessible communication and promoting neurodiversity in our organizations. Enjoy the show!
Renee, welcome to the show.
Renee Grassi:
Thank you so much, Adriane, for having me.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #1: Thank you for being here. We are talking about cultivating an inclusive workplace for neurodivergent staff. As we begin, could you please discuss neurodiversity and what this entails? 00:52
Renee Grassi:
Sure. Absolutely. So, the term neurodiversity was actually coined in the late 1990s by an autistic scholar named Judith Singer, an Australian sociologist. This is a relatively new concept. Neurodiversity refers to the range of differences in individual brain function and behavioral traits. The idea is that diversity in how our brains work is normal. That variation exists in our human population. All of us have a unique nervous system and brain function, so that change—that diversity is normal. It’s this idea that it’s expected that there’s going to be differences, and that’s okay.
There’s no official definition or spokesperson for neurodiversity or the neurodiversity movement, but there is a general consensus about what neurodiversity aims to do. I think the biggest thing is that it aims to shift the conversation away from disability as disabling— instead, disability as difference, to replace some of those more negative deficit-based stereotypes with more of a focus on a person’s individual gifts and strengths.
People who are neurodivergent often feel a strong sense of pride being neurodivergent—I, myself, am neurodivergent. As we look at some of those common identities about what makes up neurodiversity, or that neurodivergent umbrella, it could be someone who is on the autism spectrum disorder, or on the autism spectrum, someone who has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, dyslexia and other learning disabilities fall under that neurodiversity umbrella. Mental health diagnoses like anxiety or depression—how their brain works. I really try to look at nature. There’s stronger ecosystems out there, and those stronger ecosystems have more biodiversity, variation in plant life, variation in animal life, and the very existence of that variation is an asset for that ecosystem. It helps keep it alive. When we look at leadership and management and what we’re taught, we recognize that, of course, diverse teams are made up of people with a multitude of talents and strengths, and those teams are more effective, innovative, productive if they’re diverse. So, I think about that with neurodiversity. I think we as libraries, we as library leaders, we really want to view our organizations in a positive way and look at differences, like neurodiversity, as a strength of ours.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #2: I like your description as in nature, where differences in ecosystems—like workplaces, make us stronger and more resilient. When cultivating an inclusive workplace for neurodivergent staff, you emphasize the importance of accessible communication. Will you share about that? 03:47
Renee Grassi:
Communication is fundamental to being human, right? Communication isn’t just verbal, it’s also non-verbal. It helps us interact with each other, express ourselves, solve problems, and understand the world we’re living in. As library leaders, we really need to have a strong grasp on our own communication style and the variation of communication styles that exist in our teams.
I’ve been in library management and leadership for over thirteen years in public libraries—I sometimes like to think of myself as a chameleon, when I’m working with staff. To the best of my ability, I’m going to try and adapt and change how I communicate and interact with my staff based on their own needs and their own preferences and styles. I might not be able to do that all the time, and that’s okay. But, when working with neurodivergent employees, specifically, that means I want to have an awareness and understanding on how that staff member’s own neurodivergence affects their communication.
Some of the best practices that I follow myself—I always let the employee lead when they identify themselves. If they are using person-first language, I’m going to use person-first language when referring to them or communicating with them. That means literally in the context of a sentence, putting the person first like, I have autism—or I have a disability. So, the person is first in that sentence and then the disability is second.
However, in the neurodiversity movement there’s a lot of popularity with this concept of identity-first language. It’s this idea that neurodiversity is a part of oneself that you can’t separate. Also, again, there’s a strong sense of pride. So, you’ll often hear people who prefer identity-first language saying, I am autistic or I am deaf or I am disabled. So, that is something just to be aware of. You might even ask your staff member if they’ve disclosed their neurodiversity to you, How do you like to be referred to? Because, I think at the end of the day, we all deserve respect. That is one way that we can create a safe working environment for staff.
There’s a lot of intersectionality in the neurodiversity community with the LGBTQIA+ community. So, we’re going to honour our staff member’s pronouns, gender identity and gender expression. In my view, this is non-negotiable and absolutely essential for that safe and trusting work environment. And, that helps with our communication. But also, it would depend on the person. One of the things that I think about when thinking about neurodiversity is the way that people answer questions. Depending on the person, they may prefer either/or questions as opposed to open-ended questions. It would depend on the person, but sometimes open-ended questions need a specific level of support.
For example, if a person has auditory or verbal processing disorder or differences, they may need a little bit more time processing the information and the communication that you yourself are saying verbally. They may need time to communicate and put together the communication that they want to say in response to your communication. So, it’s important to be flexible—be patient. Sometimes that pregnant pause or that moment of silence can be a little awkward, but I’ve had to learn this myself because I’m a relatively verbose person. Sometimes you really just need to ask the question and then create that silence for the person to process. If you’re noticing that someone is having a hard time understanding what you’re saying—just like when you’re working with patrons, rephrase your question or rephrase the thing that you’re saying, ask it differently. This is a really positive way to support accessible communication. Then also ask questions. You may want to prompt someone about a situation before it happens. This helps people with ADHD, anxiety, PTSD to know what’s going to happen before it happens.
For example, if you as a manager know that you have a big question that you want to talk to somebody about, or you have feedback for this person to process and you want to talk to them about it—at a time when there’s no stress in the communication, ask this person, So, if there was a situation where I wanted to share feedback with you, would you like me to send it to you in an email first so you can have time to process it ahead of time before we talk about it in person?
This is an area, sometimes, where employees are not always aware of what works best for them. They may say, Yeah, email me. Then the next thing, they’re knocking on your door. They’re emotionally dysregulated and they need to talk to you, but at least asking those questions ahead of time to prepare that person, Yes, there will be opportunities for feedback. And yes, we will be talking about some important things. So, that can help.
Then my last tip is about emotional dysregulation. As a library leader, we might have staff coming to us who are in emotional distress. I think now is a really important time for us to be aware of our own emotional regulation so that we can support our staff that might be going through some tough times. Knowing that in our de-escalation training, people tell us it’s really important to de-escalate first, before you communicate and talk to someone about a really important topic where they need to listen.
If you’re trying to explain something to someone and you’re starting to notice that they’re becoming dysregulated, look, listen and observe those signs and then ask them, How can I help you in this moment? As opposed to continuing to talk about the situation and ignoring what is going on in their emotional capacity. I think this could be a great question to ask again in advance, Hey, when you’re upset, what are some signs that I can look for? What support do I need to give you in those moments so that I know how I can be your best support?
Sometimes we can’t communicate in exactly the way that that person prefers. As library leaders, we need to communicate important information. But as long as we’re communicating in a variety of styles—maybe not all in-person, we’re varying it with our emails, our blogs, our videos. Use as many options as you possibly can to communicate with your staff. That will help address a variety of communication styles.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #3: How do we provide individual support for neurodivergent staff members or volunteers? 10:39
Renee Grassi:
It’s a great question because I always think about neurodiversity as difference. Each person may need a different approach, so there’s not one-size-fits-all. I approach every situation with a phrase, I wonder why? Maybe you’re dealing with a staff member who is neurodivergent, and you’re wondering why this person is saying, or doing, or acting this way? I think that approach of curiosity really helps address our own biases and address and avoid any assumptions that we ourselves may make.
But really, it’s about setting people up for success. Telling people at the start of a job—right when they are hired what this job entails. Ask those questions about their communication preferences. Ask them what works for them. It might also be about assessing their work environment. Neurodivergent employees may have different sensory preferences, or they may have different sensory challenges when it comes to the workplace. Maybe there are options that your workplace can provide that would support an individual. Some of these might be considering the desk or the furniture—maybe this person really likes to stand up, that is how they stay active and mentally engaged in their work. Maybe you have a sit-stand desk that you can provide. They even now have equipment that you can put on a regular desk that allows the monitor to be lifted up a couple of feet so that someone could stand next to the existing desk.
I think about fidget chairs. A lot of us might fidget ourselves, tapping our legs, or fidgeting while we’re working. There might be a chair that would work particularly well for this person—addressing the lighting of a room and considering some of the sensory environment, too. If you have multiple possibilities that this person could set—giving them a choice, instead of just deciding for them.
If you’re more limited, and I’ve worked in small libraries where I’ve been quite limited in staff seating, have that person work in that space and then check in with them right away to say, Hey, is there anything that I can buy, like noise-canceling headphones, or fidgets, or even a rear view mirror? I’ll explain that in a second. That might help you feel a little bit more safe.
I once had a staff member in a very fixed situation where we could not address their—really any changes to their desk setup. Their desk was facing the window and their chair, their back was towards the door, which, if you know anything about trauma-informed design, that’s not ideal, having someone’s back facing the door. This person, over time, said, You know, I really am getting startled by people walking up to me or tapping me on the shoulder. I’m really focused in my work and have headphones. We talked about it together and we came up with a solution of putting a mirror on her monitor so that she could see behind her, so that as she was working, she could actually see if someone was approaching her and that didn’t provide her any additional distress.
The last thing I would say is consider training. Training is so important. I think a lot of libraries would love to give more time to onboarding, sometimes, than they necessarily could, but training really sets someone up for success. Have options for training. If there are videos for training, offer those. Make sure they have closed captions, they could be watched multiple times for additional retention. Making sure that you have checklists and procedures in writing for those people that really prefer having things written down so they could go back to it again. Maybe some people are really interpersonal—that’s a strength of theirs, so they want learning opportunities with other people. Asking people what they prefer and then offering them a variety of options, because the fact that we have options is all about accessibility. So, those are some of the recommendations I would make.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #4: What strategies can we implement to promote inclusion for neurodivergent team members? 14:53
Renee Grassi:
Managing teams is a really important part of being a leader, being a manager. The first thing that I would always say is make sure your policies are up to date. Make sure that your emergency leave policy and procedure is up to date, because you never know some person who is neurodivergent may have to utilize their emergency leave for an unexpected medical reason.
I would also encourage libraries that have the ability to offer telecommuting for specific jobs. It has to support the job itself, but telecommuting could be an option for neurodivergent staff, especially for those that work at libraries with really small quarters, for staff with a lot of different sensory inputs and different uncontrollable factors. My office as a director was next to the HVAC closet, and that provided a lot of noise. I was able to work through it, but I could imagine another person who has auditory processing differences where sounds actually cause physical pain—it might be very difficult to work through that. So, if you have the ability to offer it, telecommuting is really important. And, then the last thing I’ll say about telecommuting is that the disability community has been advocating for telecommuting for decades, and only until we entered into the COVID-19 pandemic was telecommuting offered for the masses. So, I really think that we can learn from the pandemic and learn how to create inclusive, welcoming environments for staff, and learn from those experiences providing telecommuting when it works.
Another thing that I would say is make sure that you have a very clear and legal anti-bullying and anti-harassment policy. Just as any other marginalized identities, it might be that neurodivergent individuals may experience bullying, or harassment in the workplace. As a library leader, we are accountable for making sure that does not happen.
Then at the end, I would also just say, make sure that your staff know where these policies are. Know where the procedure is instead of just writing the policy and then enacting it, remind staff, talk about it during staff days. Talk about it in manager meetings, making sure that staff are aware.
Other suggestions I would have for supporting inclusion in teams—I would also really consider having a fidget-friendly workplace. One of the things that we learned from this onset of the fidget spinner is that fidgets can help people with concentration, attention, memory—a lot of us fidget. It doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re neurodivergent, but it’s something that we do. Some people may want to, or need to fidget for emotional regulation, to process hard situations. I’ve had the opportunity in a couple of my libraries where I put together a fidget box. I would bring them out for every staff meeting, all-staff meeting, every department meeting, or team-project meeting. I would just say, Take a fidget, return it when you’re done, so that people knew that it was available and then they could use it or bring their own if they want to.
Another thing that I would say is for meetings—there’s a lot you can do with meetings, I could probably talk about meetings for an hour [laughter], but it’s important to provide structure during meetings. I know that’s not every library leader’s cup of tea, but providing structure is really important for people to know what’s coming next. It allows people to plan for change in topic, to prepare topics that they themselves want to contribute to. Having advanced agendas sent out to people is really key for those people that might be experiencing anxiety or learning disabilities so that they can prep and prepare in advance.
I would also say, as a former children’s librarian, we all benefit from structure. As we look at preschool and kindergarten—having different times for different activities designated really sets those kids up for success. So providing that structure in a meeting, as opposed to coming to a meeting, not having a formal agenda and just seeing where the conversation goes—honestly, that structure can help everybody, but as well as neurodivergent staff.
Then along with that, there’s an opportunity to provide your staff with a culture setting. If you have regular meetings with a team, or your staff on a regular basis, there’s an opportunity for you to say, Hey, when you come to these meetings, these are the things that we can all agree on. Maybe it’s an opportunity to co-create those agreements together. So, for example, those agreements could say, You know, when you have the need to, take a bio break anytime for no reason. If you want to stand or sit in this meeting, that’s fine. I like to stand in longer meetings. So, you’ll often see me in the back standing— just to keep active that way, but it also is helpful for me because I do tend to get a little jittery in long meetings. Also in an opportunity for agreements with staff, you can say, If you’re managing a hard situation, it’s okay to excuse yourself. You don’t need to ask permission. You don’t need to raise your hand. Setting this up in advance can really help people who are neurodivergent who might go through a hard time for any reason during a meeting, but they know that the environment is safe and non-judgmental, and they’re able to take care of themselves first. Because, if we’ve learned anything during the pandemic, it’s that our health and our wellness are the most important thing, and we need to take care of that first before we take care of others.
The last recommendation I would make is use visuals. We all learn and communicate differently. There’s something called Gardner’s Theory of Multiple Intelligences. It’s this idea, similar to the concept of neurodiversity, that people learn differently. There might be more kinesthetic learners, people that learn by doing, and they activate their bodies. There might be more linguistic learners that learn and communicate through verbal or written. Then there might be visual learners. So, when I get groups together, I usually try to offer some sort of visual. Maybe it’s a written agenda. If it’s a larger group, I will put together a PowerPoint just to keep people engaged visually while also listening to the conversation take place. So yeah, that’s what I would recommend.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #5: That is helpful, Renee. Thank you. Is there anything else you’d like to share? 21:51
Renee Grassi:
The one thing I was thinking about today as we started our conversation is this idea of taking care of ourselves first. As library leaders, as managers, we almost need to subscribe to the whole—put on your own mask before helping others. When you’re working with people who are neurodivergent, it could be new. It can be different. You could be experiencing a situation that you’ve never experienced before, and you might not know how to deal with it right away, and that’s okay. Don’t let the fear of that inhibit you from connecting with your staff and learning something new. I think that it’s especially important to manage our own emotional regulation and wellness when we come to the workplace.
There is so much happening in libraries right now, lots of external factors that some we can, and some we cannot control. That makes the workplace really challenging for managers and library leaders. So, as we think of taking care of our staff and caring for what they need, we realize that we need to care for ourselves first. In order to do that, yes, we need to take vacation. Yes, maybe we do need to leave early to go pick up our family member. Maybe we do need that work-from-home day because it’s helpful to get away from some of the distractions. I would just say that as we think about creating inclusion at our workplaces, we really need to care for ourselves, as leaders, so that we can make sure that we’re ready and able to show up for our staff when it matters most.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #6: Great advice. Do you have any books or resources you’d like to share and why? 23:38
Renee Grassi:
Yes, absolutely. One of the things that I talk about a lot is trauma-informed practice. There are a variety of books specifically geared towards trauma-informed librarianship, and several of them are available through the American Library Association store—online. One of them is called Trauma Informed librarianship Seeding Change in Higher Education. Another one is called Trauma-Informed Approach to Library Services.
The reason I think trauma-informed service and leadership is so important is because we are all, in a lot of ways, navigating large collective trauma experiences. We never know what our staff members may be experiencing or what they have experienced in their lives. So, for example, in 2020, we experienced a global pandemic. We experienced a huge racial reckoning with the murder of George Floyd. A couple of years ago, more than twenty public libraries in Illinois received bomb threats. It was a really scary time to be a leader in libraries in Illinois during those bomb threats. I know that, unfortunately, there are community shootings. I was just talking to another colleague the other day about a shooting that happened at their library. These are really difficult times, so we need to approach ourselves with compassion and understanding, but we also need to approach the work in our staff with a level of trauma-informed practice, so that we can really consider what our staff need and how we can show up best for them.
The last thing that I’ll say is there is a great book out there called Neurodiversity at Work: Drive Innovation, Performance and Productivity with a Neurodiverse Workforce. This is co-written by an individual who is neurodivergent, and it has fantastic recommendations and strategies for leaders in libraries, but in any industry really. One of the quotes that’s from this book is actually the following: That’s the power of having a neurodiverse world. If we can crack the cognitive Enigma Code, we can truly and positively transform the world of work for the better, enable true inclusivity, and all live and prosper in a world where we can have a sense of belonging. I just wanted to share that because I think that makes us human. All of us want to belong. All of us want to feel valued and feel seen. So, with that, I just want to say thank you so much for this conversation today, and helping neurodivergent library staff feel a sense of belonging just through listening to this podcast.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #7: Thank you. In closing, what do libraries mean to you personally? 26:40
Renee Grassi:
Libraries mean a lot of things for me personally. I think, very matter of factly, they are my livelihood. It is my profession. It is something that I’m passionate about. I started in libraries, working in youth services, and I love working with children and families. In addition to that, libraries also mean for me, connection. I remember growing up and always knowing the people that worked at the library and they knew me. I remember being called by name, attending programs. I was the library kid that would want to learn the art that they were talking about in that day’s adult lecture. I’d be the one kid in the adult lecture about some sort of artist or artistic movement. I would always sign up for summer reading program. I would always check out music CDs of my favorite Broadway musical. The libraries meant for me an opportunity to explore my own passions and my own interests.
Now I think personally, libraries today are a place where we can see democracy at work. We can have viewpoints that are different from everybody. We can explore the things that we’re interested in. We can learn about people’s differences. We can contribute and participate without judgment on what we’re reading or what we’re learning about. They are places where I think those core American values are truly lived out. And, I think, public libraries are more important now than ever before as that platform for community, for engagement, and for supporting others. There are so many services available at your local library that people really need. And so honestly, I’m honored to be in this profession for as long as I have. It’ll be eighteen years next month, and I’ve met the most amazing people and have done incredible work collaborating with community members. So, libraries mean a lot to me. They’re pretty great.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #8: They are pretty great. Those are such marvelous reflections, Renee. Thank you for bringing to us today the concept of libraries as places of support for individuals, communities and democracy. What you’re talking about—cultivating inclusive workplaces for neurodivergent staff will help us do that for everyone working in the library, so that together we can broadly support our communities. I’m so grateful you were here to share all of this with our listeners. 29:02
Renee Grassi:
It’s been an absolute pleasure, and thank you so much for having this podcast and dedicating your time to lifelong learning. It’s a profession that I love because we’re always learning all the time. So, thank you for providing this vehicle, this channel, for additional learning in our fantastic profession.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Oh thank you. It’s my great pleasure, Renee.
You’ve been listening to Library Leadership podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes, tune into LibraryLeadershipPodcast.com, where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right into your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.
The opinions expressed on this show are those of the speaker, and do not necessarily reflect the views of LibraryLeadershipPodcast or our sponsors.