[Pictured: Robin Flipczak and Stacey Grijalva]
Have you asked yourself lately how you can up your reference interview game to best serve your constituents? On this show, we hear from two professionals at the Denver Public Library. Stacey Grijalva, is a Librarian at the Central Library, and Robin Filipzak, is Supervisor at the Eugene Field Branch Library. They share how successfully discerning what people need using reference interviews is key to creating happy customers. This topic is fundamental to our profession and essential for getting the people we assist just what they need.
Transcript
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Adriane Herrick Juarez:
This is Adriane Juarez. You’re listening to Library Leadership Podcast, where we talk about libraries and leadership and speak with guests who share their ideas, innovations and strategic insights in the profession.
Have you asked yourself lately how you can up your reference interview game to best serve your constituents? On this show we hear from two professionals at the Denver Public Library. Stacy Grijalva is a librarian at the Central Library, and Robin Filipczak is supervisor at the Eugene Field Branch Library. They share how successfully discerning what people need using reference interviews is key to creating happy customers. This topic is fundamental to our profession and essential for getting the people we assist just what they need. Enjoy the show.
Stacy and Robin, welcome to the show.
Robin Filipczak:
Thank you for having us, it’s nice to be here.
Stacey Grijalva:
Thank you.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #1: It’s nice to have you both here today. We are going to talk about the reference interview, asking better questions for happier customers. As librarians, it’s important for us to find out what our customers need to provide them with the best help. I know many of us have gotten interesting questions over time. Stacy, can you share a bit about that? 01:37
Stacey Grijalva:
Yes, libraries are in a special position where people trust us with their questions about what is near and dear to them. This can vary from how to find cookbooks, or how to handle a new medical diagnosis, or ethical positions on end of life assistance. We give equal attention to all these questions because we don’t know the stories behind them, and often one question leads to another. The customer may start by asking when an upcoming election is and then ask about candidate positions on the issue. Then they want to know where to turn in their ballot.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #2: That’s true. You never know where the next question is going to lead. So given this, Robin, how can a reference interview best help us find out what a customer wants to match that with library resources? 02:40
Robin Filipczak:
This is where Stacy and I start talking about mental models. A mental model is the explanation of how something works. It’s the worldview that you carry around in your mind, and mental models help you understand life. Customers have their own mental model of the library, how it’s organized, how they might engage with it to answer their own questions.
So think about the difference between visiting a grocery store that you’re familiar with and visiting a grocery chain that’s new to you. In one, you know where things are. In the other you have a general idea that things may be similarly arranged, but you don’t know for sure. And since customers are coming to us with their own ideas of how information is organized in the library, they often try to translate that understanding into a question that fits their mental model of the library.
So someone might ask, Where’s your gardening section? Figuring that if we can point them to this space called gardening in the library, they’ll be able to find, for instance, a book that will answer their question. But our job is to interpret and clarify what they need. As library staff, we have a deeper mental model of the library that gets closer to what it actually is. So if a customer asks us a question, we can save them time, which is the fourth law of library science, right? Using our deep mental model of the library, we have to move beyond this posed question to find out what a customer really wants to do with the information they’re looking for. So, Where’s your gardening section? …becomes, I have aphids on my tomato plants.
Once we get there, we as professionals know that the answer might be in one of our books, but it could also be in a recently published article in one of our databases. Customers aren’t aware, oftentimes, of the depth of resources that we provide because their mental model might simply say libraries equals books. So the reference interview allows us to find out what the user wants to do, and then we can provide materials that help the customer reach that goal.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #3: Stacey, can you break down the reference interview process into steps for helping customers with inquiries? 04:57
Stacey Grijalva:
It can be broken down into six steps. The first one is to be approachable and interested, which you do by making the customer feel welcome. You smile at them. You speak up first. Say hello. This is a type of radical hospitality for you to demonstrate, because some people walk in thinking, Is this the right place? Does this person want to help me? Are they busy? This first stage of the reference interview sets the tone.
The second step is to listen—active listening. You have to fully concentrate and understand without interrupting, which is key. Give them a chance to tell you what they want and then you respond. While you’re listening, don’t be thinking in your head what the answer is. You can’t jump to conclusions. This listening is when you’re discovering what they want, because they may take a while to really ask the question that they came there for—they’re hesitant, and they’re going to get there eventually. When you do respond, you’re going to demonstrate you heard them and you understand them. You can do this by paraphrasing back in your own words.
The third step is the reference interview, where you discover what they want by using questions. You’re trying to learn. You start from a beginner’s mindset. You ask open-ended questions, ones that can’t be answered simply with a yes or a no. Some good ones that I like are, Can you tell me more? What are you trying to find out? And, What do you already know about this topic?
The fourth step is when you finally get to search. At this point, you’re going to explain what you’re doing and also find out what the customer has already tried. Are they coming to you because they’re frustrated and they haven’t been able to get what they want, or are you their first step? What do they remember? Do they remember dates, titles, you know, cover of the book, what color it is, that sort of thing? You want to verify spelling, especially if they’re giving you author names, or actor names for a movie. Again, while you’re doing all this you’re explaining it, so they feel included and they’re learning in case they can do it next time on their own.
The fifth step is the answer. For some people, this will not be an answer necessarily that you provide, but where you give a referral to another resource, or place, or expert because you’re realizing this answer is beyond you. That’s perfectly okay. We don’t have all the answers. But if you are giving an answer, you want to cite the source so that they can continue to trust you. If you need more time, ask them, How should I get back to you? What’s a good timeframe? Should I call you—leave a message? Check their preferences.
The last step is the follow-up. Make sure that they understood what you told them about the information. See if they need anything more. You can do this by asking them, Have I completely answered your question? If you did and they’re happy, you can encourage them to come back for another question. Or if they don’t say that you completely answered, you can say, Hey, I might not be the right person, but you can come back tomorrow, my coworker who’s really into this topic might be a better person for you. Or you can encourage them to come back with your other services—that could be a chat service, one-on-one appointment, could be technology help, could be providing reading recommendations. So you want to keep building into this interaction.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #4: That’s great. Robin, are there any common problems that arise during this process for which you have helpful solutions? 09:06
Robin Filipczak:
I think one of the first ones would be—beware of the misleading question. When someone comes to you and asks for information on bats, make sure—clarify, Are we talking about bats, the animal or bats, the sporting equipment? And oh, by the way, if we’re talking about sporting equipment, are we talking about baseball, or are we talking about cricket?
Be what I would call positively skeptical about what the customer asks for. Don’t jump to conclusions. Make sure you are clarifying along the way. Sometimes language barriers can arise, and sometimes it’s a difference in the level of topic understanding. A great example would be a college student coming into the library and saying, Hey, is Eric here, I’m looking for Eric? If you probe a little more, they’ll say, Yeah, my professor told me to come into the library and find Eric and that would help me write my paper. Eventually, if you probe down long enough, you’ll realize that what they’re really looking for is something called the Educational Resources Information Center, right? …one of our databases from the Department of Education.
Perhaps a customer wants to avoid self-disclosure, especially if they’re talking about medical, legal—financial issues. Use your courtesy. Use your approachable nature. Perhaps in layperson’s terms, explain something about intellectual freedom and our neutral stance on a customer’s right to seek out whatever information they need. Be mindful of those legal and medical boundaries. You know, what we can and can’t do for a customer. Make sure they’re a partner and they understand that we can guide them to resources and we can show them how to use resources, but we can’t necessarily do the work for them after that point.
Then time restrictions can be a factor so, Do you need a quick answer? How much library instruction should I do with you? Is this a sort of short term request where you want me to help you really quickly, or is it something where I should be teaching you a little bit more about the library so that over the long term you’re able to find information on your own?
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #5: Robin, have you seen these things applied and are there any examples of successful use? 11:26
Robin Filipczak:
One that’s really common—customers often want a book and maybe we don’t have it, and they don’t realize that we can provide access to other resources beyond what the library owns. For instance, an alliance with other regional libraries or interlibrary loan, or perhaps it’s an eBook, or an article database. If I had a penny for every time a customer was surprised that we have eBooks or Consumer Reports in digital format, right? We may not be able to answer their exact question, but when library staff give enough information, and we value-add in the interaction, and we’re friendly the customer learns that the library is a great place to come and ask questions.
In Durrance’s study, factors that influence reference success—roughly one quarter of patrons said that they would return to a reference librarian who’s friendly and welcoming, even if that librarian was not able to fully answer their question. Sometimes success looks like peeling back onion layers. You have to keep checking in with the customer.
For instance, I had someone come to me looking for information on diabetes. They wanted information on the diagnosis. As we kept probing and drilling down, they wanted to know more. They wanted to have some cooking resources, some cookbooks that would help them cook more healthily. It turns out it wasn’t the person standing in front of me, but it was actually their mom who had the diabetes diagnosis, and mom really spoke Spanish as her first language, so we needed to find some resources in Spanish.
Another example that I think is really important right now in this time period is teens asking us if they can get a library card, even if they don’t live in our service area. In our case, we don’t provide cards to non-residents, but we should probably dive down deeper into their teen specific information needs, and the reason why they’re asking to see if we can still provide an answer.
That kind of feeds into our deeper mental model of libraries. As library professionals we know some of our larger library systems in the United States are offering access to library cards to any teen across the nation. A teen isn’t going to know that, but we know that, so we can, maybe, direct them to a library like that where they can take advantage of more library resources.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #6: Good examples. Is there anything else you’d like to share? 14:07
Stacey Grijalva:
The reference interview has this formal name—the multi-step process, but really it’s a conversation, and everyone knows how to have a conversation. If you think of it as you’re going through the steps, like you’re learning a new skill—what do you do? You focus on it one piece at a time. After you’re comfortable with that piece, you move on to the next one and at the end you integrate it all together, just like you do when you’re learning how to drive.
The second piece is that this is not just for librarians, it’s for everyone. When people walk into the library, the first person that they see is who they’re going to ask a question to, and they think that person is a librarian. All they know is that you are more likely to have the answer to their question. You already have a deeper knowledge of the library—how it’s organized, what it offers. No matter your position, you are poised to share your expertise or make a good referral to the librarian if necessary.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #7: Fantastic. Robin and Stacey, do you have any favorite management or leadership books or resources and why? 15:20
Robin Filipczak:
When I was 16, I was grounded by my father and my “punishment” was to read How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie. It had such a profound impact on my life. As I think about the precepts of the book, I recognize that a lot of these are sort of tied up in the reference interview: remembering people’s names; being interested and not interesting; show a genuine interest in other people; be quick to acknowledge your own mistakes; and model humility. Then some great management precepts—praise in public, correct in private. Don’t criticize, condemn or complain. So yeah, these have really kind of led me through my career.
The other shoutout I’d like to give is to the ALA Center for the Future of Libraries. I really value the information on their website and in their white papers about exploring the future emerging trends in the Library profession.
Stacey Grijalva:
I really like to call up people and talk to them about their experience in management positions. Give them the scenario that maybe I’m dealing with, hearing their perspective, how they’d work through it and other examples that they can provide.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
Question #8: I think using other people as resources is a great thing to mention. Stacey—thank you for that. And Robin, if only all our punishments were reading— the world would be a much better place, wouldn’t it? For both of you, in closing, what do libraries mean to you personally? 16:49
Stacey Grijalva:
I believe that libraries are a space that fit you—through all times of your life from birth to death. They’re the spot that I went to when I was a teenager with my best friend biking over with a backpack to fill it up. I’ve seen so many new parents come in with their strollers so that they can be there for storytime. I’ve seen people of all ages, and they come in to hang out. They read the newspaper. They’re just in a safe space. And personally, it’s also the spot that I turned to after my grandfather’s funeral so that I could find his military record.
Robin Filipczak:
I find libraries to be transformative spaces—that space between a question and an answer can really change your life, right? Finding the answer to a question can change your life. I feel so privileged to work in a space where I can be a helping hand in that transformation, that potential transformation in someone’s life.
Adriane Herrick Juarez: Transformation through information is core to libraries. What you are both talking about in terms of this space between a question and an answer is exactly where we librarians are meant to be at our very best. We put people together with what they want to know and the resources libraries have to offer. When we are good at discerning what a question means and helping guide people through a process that gets them what they need. We are doing great work. Thank you for highlighting this fundamental part of our service. It’s a good reminder of how great reference interviews can make happier customers. I really appreciate you being on the show.
Stacey Grijalva:
My pleasure.
Robin Filipczak:
Thank you. It was a real pleasure.
Adriane Herrick Juarez:
You’ve been listening to Library Leadership podcast. This is Adriane Herrick Juarez. For more episodes, tune in to Library Leadership Podcast.com, where you can now subscribe to get episodes delivered right into your email inbox. Our producer is Nathan Sinclair Vineyard. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.
We would like to thank the Park City Library for their dedicated support of this show. The opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Library Leadership podcast or our sponsors.